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All the people you mentioned are mythical, not actual people who existed. Jesus was not mythical, he actually existed.
That Jesus is not mythical is merely your opinion. You have produced zero evidence to support that opinion. But aside from that, the point made has gone right over your head and that point is that people who write fiction will include real people, events and locations in their books. The practice is, in fact, the basis of all good novels but just because an author bases his hero in London and living at 22b Baker St (both places being real) it does not mean that all characters in the book are real. Same with your Bible. We know that Egypt existed at the time but it does not automatically follow that there were any 'plagues of Egypt' just because Egypt exists.
The Iliad and the Odyssey allowed Schlieman to find the ruins of Troy. That does not require us to also believe in the monsters Scylla and Charybdis, or accept as truth that the cyclops Polyphemus threw rocks at passing ships from the slopes of Mount Etna.
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When the historians recorded him, they didnot record him to be a myth, they recorded actual events that occured.
No they didn't. They recorded things that they had heard, stories that they had heard. None of the historians you listed were even alive at the time this Jesus was alleged to have lived.
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None of the myths you listed are recorded in history to have associated with actual people.
Interesting that you have no evidence for Yahweh and you have no evidence for Zeus....but Zeus automatically becomes a fictional character whilst Yahweh doesn't. Why is that?
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Your effort to use myths, to erase reality is in error, you only create a symbolic arguement in which you look to equate myths with reality.
My effort to use myths is to point out to you that mythology did and still does use real people, real places and real events to make a good story.
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Originally Posted by Mickiel
And I disasgree with you, many people still do dispute the existance of Jesus, its just that yearly the proof is beginning to pour in, and that truth is weakening their position.
Produce it then. Produce verifiable, objective evidence for your man-god. If you actually have it, I assure you that you will become the richest man on the planet. People have searched for such evidence for two thousand years and having found none, have resorted to lies, deceit and misinformation to make up the evidence. If you have the evidence then let the world see it.
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Biblical Archaeology is wrecking havoc on these distractors.
...and what about the archaeology that disproves the Bible such as Jericho, Nazareth, the Pyramids and a thousand other things....ignore it presumably?
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This is why certain Atheist like Charles Bradlaugh, tried to " Soften Atheism", claiming that it does not state there is no God, but it merely is a lack of belief in God.
Because that is what atheism is.
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The attempt is to shift proof to the Theist side.
He that makes the claim bears the burden of proof. Would you be happy with me claiming that you stole my wallet and demanding that you prove that you didn't steal it.... rather than me proving that you did?
All you are doing in this thread is making up illogical nonsense such as 'Egypt exists, therefore, the plagues of Egypt mention in the Bible MUST have happened' or 'the river Jordan exists therefore, the story about Jesus being baptised in that river MUST be true.'
From reading the Harry Potter books one can know the rules of the game of Quiddich. You might say "But there is no such thing as Quiddich. It is a made-up game played by fictional characters." To which I might say "Exactly."
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
What effect is intended in quoting these verses? Is it to "prove" something to those who disagree with your stance or to gratify yourself by trying to accomplish a " so there" moment?
Well I agree, numbers and social acceptance are miniscule in a real search for comprehending if God exist, I maintain it must be mostly a personal search, that convinces self, preferably a search that involves only you and nonelse. I compare it to " Romance." I don't need anyones help in finding a woman, I can do that all by myself. I need to do it alone.
And speaking of Romance, that is another evidence of God in my view. Romance didnot come from evolution, it didnot come from anything physical, like water and rocks or chemicals. So where did it come from? I believe it came from God, who wanted his creations to mate. There is no scientific evidence for Romance that I accept as legit. It is NOT a physical thing, it is purely spiritual. Now I am not talking about " Lust", or the drive to mate physically, I am talking about human Love, one for another.
Peace.
Romance is just a human spin on courtship/mating ( it may be advantageous ), big brain stuff. Nice but not divine. Maybe a bit like comparing a passion for cheese making to the need for food.
Consciousness and Language are excellent ways to prove God to yourself. Language was consciously taught to man, but by whom; Himself? I cannot accept that as reason. I cannot accept that in our past, Primordal man taught himself how to speak, developed verbs and nouns, understood sentences enough to slowly create a workable language, and then taught whole tribes how to follow suit. My consciousness does not allow the leap from grunts and growls to complette languages. The creation story of Adam and Eve being taught by God, educated in language, given that language, fills far more holes than humans creating themselves and teaching themselves languages.
One needs the consciousness to comprehend all this in the first place. Where did consciousness come from? Did it evolve from unconscious nothing? I cannot consciously make that incredible, uncredible leap! You have to use science to prove God to yourself. What science can explain the first eruption of matter in the universe? Where and how did matter first appear?
An explosion in space? Where did the Space come from? Explain that to yourself. Explosions are destructive, explain to yourself how an destructive explosion, originating from nowhere, " Finds a Space to explode, and that destruction now can cause Life?" Then from that destructive explosion from nowhere, which found a space to explode in, matter suddenly appears. Then, amazingly, chemicals appears on that new matter. Then, over the years, ( years meaning all of a sudden we have this thing called " Time", which we never had before") Chemicals begin to combine, they mix and mingle in this stuff called " Water", which also created itself, and eventually life began to develop.
Over the years it developed into a tadpole, which later crawled out of the water, developed legs over the years, and that thing became our forefather, the Ape. And that thing developed language. That thing developed civilization. And your going to let your consciousness believe that we are continous with this idiot hiearchy of speechless Apes. A belief in God readily explains all of our orgins without this archane spectulation.
And I want to get into that proof of God; the correct " Filling of knowledge", is a sure proof of God.
Consciousness and Language are excellent ways to prove God to yourself. Language was consciously taught to man, but by whom; Himself? I cannot accept that as reason. I cannot accept that in our past, Primordal man taught himself how to speak, developed verbs and nouns, understood sentences enough to slowly create a workable language, and then taught whole tribes how to follow suit. My consciousness does not allow the leap from grunts and growls to complette languages. The creation story of Adam and Eve being taught by God, educated in language, given that language, fills far more holes than humans creating themselves and teaching themselves languages.
One needs the consciousness to comprehend all this in the first place. Where did consciousness come from? Did it evolve from unconscious nothing? I cannot consciously make that incredible, uncredible leap! You have to use science to prove God to yourself. What science can explain the first eruption of matter in the universe? Where and how did matter first appear?
An explosion in space? Where did the Space come from? Explain that to yourself. Explosions are destructive, explain to yourself how an destructive explosion, originating from nowhere, " Finds a Space to explode, and that destruction now can cause Life?" Then from that destructive explosion from nowhere, which found a space to explode in, matter suddenly appears. Then, amazingly, chemicals appears on that new matter. Then, over the years, ( years meaning all of a sudden we have this thing called " Time", which we never had before") Chemicals begin to combine, they mix and mingle in this stuff called " Water", which also created itself, and eventually life began to develop.
Over the years it developed into a tadpole, which later crawled out of the water, developed legs over the years, and that thing became our forefather, the Ape. And that thing developed language. That thing developed civilization. And your going to let your consciousness believe that we are continous with this idiot hiearchy of speechless Apes. A belief in God readily explains all of our orgins without this archane spectulation.
And I want to get into that proof of God; the correct " Filling of knowledge", is a sure proof of God.
Peace.
So you are saying that anything that you do not understand, you are going to attribute to your god.
The point is that the Bible is a historical record that is accurate and has some validity, - thus-, it records the existance of God, -thus, that has validity and is a valueble record in an individuals effort to prove God to themselves. The point is Academic and feared by bible distractors.
And I disasgree with you, many people still do dispute the existance of Jesus, its just that yearly the proof is beginning to pour in, and that truth is weakening their position. Biblical Archaeology is wrecking havoc on these distractors. This is why certain Atheist like Charles Bradlaugh, tried to " Soften Atheism", claiming that it does not state there is no God, but it merely is a lack of belief in God. The attempt is to shift proof to the Theist side. This is what you are doing now; Your statement;" So, I don't think too many people dispute that a man name Jesus most likely existed", is a " Softening of Atheism" which you wouldnot have admitted years ago when the proof was not solid.
Peace.
What? Do you know what atheism is? It is just a label given to those who have no belief in god/s. Nothing else. Atheism has never had any kind of "stance" on the man Jesus. Many atheists have never had any qualms agreeing that this man existed. That's not saying that this man was god, but just a man. And like I said earlier about history, geography, archeology, etc in the bible......even if these things were 100% accurate, none of this is any proof of the supernatural or god.
So you are saying that anything that you do not understand, you are going to attribute to your god.
I am saying that one of the formulas I used to prove the existance of Christ, was the writings of 10 historians, you rebutted with myths. If you use that same formula and produce 10 historians who verify the existance of ANY mythical characther, I will comply to your premiss.
What? Do you know what atheism is? It is just a label given to those who have no belief in god/s. Nothing else. Atheism has never had any kind of "stance" on the man Jesus. Many atheists have never had any qualms agreeing that this man existed. That's not saying that this man was god, but just a man. And like I said earlier about history, geography, archeology, etc in the bible......even if these things were 100% accurate, none of this is any proof of the supernatural or god.
Jesus was a man, he was not a God, and I disagree with those christians who teach as such. And I disagree with you, Archaeology is proof that there is a God. Now, Archaeology itself does not seek to prove anything, it just works with the facts, the evidence at hand. Its the evidence thats its discovering, through scientific study, which is giving the bible an unpresendented historical value. Archaeology can dovetail with the bible and give you a " Working Knowledge" of human history, and we are finding that God is all in that history, all involved in its story, and no pessimist can remove him.
And that is another proof of God, a sure way to prove him to yourself, a study of him gives you a " Working Knowledge" of so many things. It fills a whole lot of gaps in our understanding.
Peace.
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