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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I think as early as the 1600s in some intellectual circles, but not among the populace of Europe until from about the late 18th century, beginning in Paris/France and spreading first to Western Europe and then to Eastern Europe via Communism.
France was probably became primarily secular around 1900, Germany by the time of Nazism, the UK by World War II, Italy and Spain by the 1970s-1980s. Holland and Scandinavia probably in the early 20th century.
Rationalism and the Enlightenment seemed to influence urban America as much as Europe, but American society probably became primarily secular around the 1950s.
In America our nation was established as being secular right from the start but religion has been extremely influential to this day and there are many people who don't even accept the fact that the Founding Fathers didn't create a Christian nation. Because this country is made up of so many people whose lives revolve around their religious faith I don't believe you can really refer to America as a secular culture like you could in many European nations.
America is about as secular a 14th Century Europe.
Only difference is that modern christians don't have the authority to put to death those who are not of the same faith.
My congratulations to modern Europe.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis
America is about as secular a 14th Century Europe.
Only difference is that modern christians don't have the authority to put to death those who are not of the same faith.
My congratulations to modern Europe.
Mainstream American society seems very secular. The populace not so much.
I think you can track the shift from religion to secular by tracking the availability of education within a culture. As natural questions are answered the myths are no longer needed. The big shift in Europe came after WWII, and has continued to expand, the shift in the US due to government being involved in promoting religion has been slower, but is now expanding as the trust in our leaders (both religious and government) have come into question. I think our government after WWII used religion as a control method to counter the exposure the masses had to other world cultures during the war. This is not to belittle the secular and humanist movement of the 16th and 17th centuries. I think they set the foundation for the intellectual growth needed to remove the yoke religion has had on humanity.
In Europe, the stage has been set for an Islamic take over. The staggering demographics of the Muslims is proof to that, and is only set to increase.
On the other hand, the same can be said about the US. For again, the US is only a figurative extension of European values and life. And the US is generally a few decades behind in catching up on such soft culture advances. But there is still hope left for the US. While chickens will be waiting to come home to roost, the future of the continent is safe with the massive Hispanic influx, much like the Muslim demographic across the pond.
You can't ignore the truth anymore. The Latin population is a silent force and will probably be almost the majority by 2025. And they are largely devout and catholic. My only beef with them is that they do not have the anglo-Saxon will power to fight tooth and nail with the then aggressive Islamic Europe. But the oceans will be America's biggest defence and will be so, for a good while.
I see a resurgence in Catholicism and probably the thin line between the church and state might disappear, given the blind allegiance of the Latin population, who are continuing to pack churches and are filling church coffers which have been long empty owing to believer estrangement. Quite a world we live in. And it's funny how countries and continents evolve
In Europe, the stage has been set for an Islamic take over. The staggering demographics of the Muslims is proof to that, and is only set to increase.
On the other hand, the same can be said about the US. For again, the US is only a figurative extension of European values and life. And the US is generally a few decades behind in catching up on such soft culture advances. But there is still hope left for the US. While chickens will be waiting to come home to roost, the future of the continent is safe with the massive Hispanic influx, much like the Muslim demographic across the pond.
You can't ignore the truth anymore. The Latin population is a silent force and will probably be almost the majority by 2025. And they are largely devout and catholic. My only beef with them is that they do not have the anglo-Saxon will power to fight tooth and nail with the then aggressive Islamic Europe. But the oceans will be America's biggest defence and will be so, for a good while.
I see a resurgence in Catholicism and probably the thin line between the church and state might disappear, given the blind allegiance of the Latin population, who are continuing to pack churches and are filling church coffers which have been long empty owing to believer estrangement. Quite a world we live in. And it's funny how countries and continents evolve
Not sure where you see the Muslim overthrow in Europe, here is the last data I found on Muslim VS Atheist growth in Europe. I don't see your projection taking form.
Muslim Atheist
Austria 1% 8%
Belgium 3% 27%
Croatia .1% 7%
Denmark 2% 19%
Estonia .1% 26%
Finland .2% 16%
France 6% 33%
Germany 4% 25%
Hungary .2% 19%
Isle of Man .2% no data
Ireland .55 4%
Italy .1% 6%
Lithuania .1% 12%
Luxembourg 3% 22%
Netherlands 5.7% 27%
Norway 1% 17%
Poland .1% 1%
Portugal .1% 6%
Romania .3% 1%
Spain 1% 18%
Sweden 2% 23%
Switzerland 4.3% 9%
U. K. 2.7% 52%
Vatican .1% not listed
Rather like Mickiel's Adam event it didn't happen at a particular time but is a gradual evolution of realization with a few 'Saltations' when some niches became open.
Undoubtedly Jump 1. was the renaissance when it was realised that the sun was not the centre of the universe.
Jump 2 was NOT Newton as he was just explaining the workings of God but it seems to have been in the 18th century and being bound up with revolutionary politics. In effect, God - anointed kings were no longer the centre of the political universe.
Jump 3 was the later 19th century when the Bible account itself came under question. Deism as a default of Theism came under question.
Jump 4 was the two world wars which called the existence of any sort of hands - on deity into question.
Jump 5 is still to come, but I'd suggest it is when the validity of religion and its teachings is called into question
Can't say I like these 5,7% in for example my country (the Netherlands). You have to realize that that is about the whole country, where as some cities full neighbourhoods are muslims.
We only have 16million inhabitants. Our second city is Rotterdam with around half a million, 46% is not Not, mostly middle eastern immigrants. I don't know the exact percentage of the muslims there but it's rather scaring for me that our second city is like that. Time to move.
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