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I have a small problem with the term "brainwashing." But then, I spent 20 years in military intelligence and psyops.
Tackling the "problem" of people willingly accepting mythology as "fact" is akin to Hercules battling a seven-headed hydra. The "monster" is not only real but extremely complicated in form.
While not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, I feel that we (who are on the other side of the street/fence) are all guilty of providing one-liners or quick answers as reasons why people feel compelled to believe such-and-such.
At the same time, I also believe that most of us know the more dimensionally-challenging reasons behind people's behavior and choice of beliefs. Not an exhaustive list by no means, but these factors include psychology, self-preservation, self-grandizement, a sense of justice/injustice, and how the world is viewed and interpreted.
I feel that there is a deep-seated dread of life that may have been inherited through gene-memory or ghostly shreds of past lives. This world is out to kill us. Or, in another way of putting it: you cannot get out of here alive. And in-between birth and death, life tends to be more like Mr. Toad's Hellish Wild Ride. And I contemplate that one major prayer shared by all people is a golden parachute that will finally our imprisoned soul from this prision into an existence that is . . . . I cannot finish that sentence, because even I do not know or understand what the alternative to this life would be.
My major objection is that the recitations are rote . . . there is no original thinking . . . I understand the psychology of needing some comforting ideology . . . but it's the absolute unconsciousness . . . I guess for me what would be gratifying would be to hear someone say, "Yeah, I know it's irrational but my family believed it so I am too afraid to question it - I would rather be comfortable and not think too much, it hurts my brain." But to argue mythology, especially against anthropology and biology just seems absurd.
Not all Christians are alike and neither are all Christian denominations. What I see far more often on these boards is lazy generalizations of Christians and Christianity. (Essentially "Christian" on these boards tends to mean a literal-minded and anti-intellectual kind of Protestantism) This is not always the case, some of you are a bit more versed in the diversity within Christianity than others, but it's pretty common.
Still I would agree that the majority of people seem to prefer simple straightforward answers that don't require much reflection. Atheists in the US are often not lazy like that because they are a distrusted minority so that kind of laziness is counterproductive. (Catholics in parts of Appalachia or the Ozarks are also much less lazy, in my experience, than Catholics here in the Midwest and for similar reasons.) However if we were in a nation where atheism was commonplace, like Sweden or Japan, I'm sure you'd find many atheists who are lazy thinkers who just go with whatever Science news shows or their friends tell them.
If you want specifics on sexual morality I could probably give you moderately involved explanations that don't even refer to the Bible. I could make it even longer if I ever get around to reading things like "Theology of the Body" and the like.
Chirstians aren't supposed to think, merely accept and obey what they are told by those claiming that are speaking in the name of God.
Some years back isn't that what the Rev. Jim Jones did in leading his flock to mass suicide in the Jamestown massacre?
Jim Jones being a Christian is unclear as there's evidence he diverged from, and abandoned, Christianity in time. There's some indication he was even an eccentric kind of atheist, although one who used strong religious and Christian imagery There are clearly Christian groups that committed mass-suicide, some of the Filippians of Russia and the "Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God" in Uganda (although apparently the Ugandan one is now considered a Mass-Murder), but Jones is at best a disputed example.
In my own experience it was fear motivated. I was so terrified of the whole "going to hell" thing that I just HAD to have the mindset of "God said it so I believe it". Only difference is that deep down inside I really didn't believe it. Thankfully I am a rational thinking person and THOUGHT my way out of that ridiculous way of life.
I believe, The Word of God is testifying here...why?
Look, they say they have experience, and knowledge of God...and then dismiss the whole thing as brainwashing?
If we do not tend to the Garden with Love, and devotion..and caring, and sharing...and not killing anything...which has YET TO BE DONE BY ANYONE...THen how can one say they have experienced and tried out the religion?....Yah...but they omit, profane, denie, and backslide all the time, while learning the truth about what God asked us to do, and the reason for our making....it is all listed in Genesis...if we all comply...then who would need anything, if everything is shared?...if we all shared everything God Gave!
It is not because those who say they believe, have done...because if they do as they say they believe in....this world would be a paradise...according to GOD's Own word and will...everyone would have a Garden, and sharing would be the daily thing to do...sharing the world...sharing the space, and making more of what was Given...into the universe in peace....cause once everyone has all the necessities of life..and helpers of God and that Life in good stewardship...and we multiply out the givens...into the universe...more EDENS are made...thus the multiplication of EDENS into heaven can be done with GOD and us complying to the will and word of GOD!
Now if those who are saying they believe, have not done this, or have strayed off the mark...with the IDOL God COMMANANDED WE NOT USE....and it has been in service ever since Jesus, and even before him in other shapes and sizes..and forms...and all people in the western world and most communist and republics/human kingdoms are using in some form....then no nation..(except those native tribes in the rain forest and small islands) are now in part compliant to the commandments...but do not know God...
as I see it no one has done what Jesus has done to the letter of what GOD has asked, and commanded we do sinlessly....except Jesus....and we are now 2000 years or so past that mark.
Jesus only had the old testement to go by....and he was able to fulfill all.
Wonder why?
I believe the answer is in Genesis...and sharing, and giving, and caring, and being good, and in some respects,..putting things back the way they should of been...a Garden containing all seeds, plants, and living things...in compliance with the word of God...to the letter of his request...and in gaining forgiveness...putting things back, that were taken without permission....which would reverse the curse of death....Not too many preachers speaking on this ideal these days.....wonder why?
And only one way to make a Garden like EDEN...and that is to use all seeds....as was mentioned in Genesis by God....so the word of God is in Genesis!...let us follow that, and walk with God in that Garden we make sinlessly...to start off on the right foot....oh wait...they are now polluting it, waring over it, and paying to live in it with that IDOL told not to have.....wonder why?
So have those who claim they believe made EDEN yet?...with all the plants God gave us to share, and make this world feed the multitudes of the LIVING THIINGS GOD MADE GOOD, with out Profaning or omitting anything...in the ways which God has asked we do?...sinlessly?....NO!
SO where are those true Christians?...or those who say they believe in GOD and do what has been commanded by the LAW, and WILL of that GOD?...none exsistant!
And the SON who says let em be....but it seems someone or something is not letting certain people try to restore those seeds...with their own bent laws under that IDOL....again no on has done what God asked we do....in that light only Jesus did do...and he said follow me...who has followed?...and if we try to follow...are we not hunted down, slaughtered, imprisoned....or profaned?...along with the plants which God said he made Good, that someone has deemed necessary to outlaw....so that we all have to pay..for what God said he gives freely to all....
Now who is brainwashed, and using that engraven IDOL today, and even asking that we give that or use it?...and work for it, while not (working for GOD in the Garden as requested) tending to the Garden in any way shape or form...and polluting it more and more, and taking things out of it...that were put there for a reason...and misusing, profaning, mistreating, and straving the other living things...by that omittion of certain plants being sown, composted, and used in the right light to climatize and make more abundantly giving the world...for the right reasons.
A cleaner healthier estate...starts when we comply to what God and his son have asked we do...
Someone said that the world is trying to kill us...and I have to wonder why?...maybe it is because we are trying to kill the planet???....But who am I to say anything of that truth today?
and someone else on this thread said, That religion is a myth...or something to that degree...Yet they forget that food of certain kinds depend on plants...and plants are to be grown in order to get food..and a estate in which we need to live in needs certain plants to maintain the system in good working order!!...is in some way governed by Plants.
Solomon tied a evil spirit to a certain plant....it is time to untie that plant which God said was Good...and unbind what Solomon bound to it....
And restore EDEN with it....by our own hand...to gain or make paradise...what was EDEN, was not EDEN, and will be restored as EDENS! Acts 3:21, 10:15, Rev 17:17
See...that is believing ...when we consume the truth of it...and start doing something to atain it..it is in the belief and the action..which makes it possible!...and it is said here in Genesis 2:15, and 9:3 in accordance with the commandments of God...that we come sinlessly into it...and in doing it...it reverse something...and it makes other things tame...because we no longer threaten them with our bent and stupid directions in killing this planet with stupidity in the industrial madness that is polluting and destroying This world...and the IDOL which is breaking the second commandment of God...ever since Jesus walked on this world.
More war?
More ills and woes?
More cost and taxes to support it?
More hospitals are not the true solution...Yet they want you to believe they are...for a higher price !
How long does it take to see the light of what humans are making darker and darker..as time goes on....brainwashed into believing they have to pay and use a Engravened IDOL to live or have life...AND,,Because of that one sin or broken commandment,...continually DIE...because of the same sin without questioning it?
What is ridiculous is no one has tried...and those who do try...give up to easy, and are alured back to the false profits, and ill gotten gains, and promise of luxuries if they comply to the other side...the evil that is now poisoning the planet with all sorts of vile and detramental estates...supporting the very thing that creates ALL the suffering, hatred, and bloodshed...even poverty is created by the IDOL...and destitution...which makes terrorists arise!...so who is at fault making these things come into being?
Jesus pointed it out 2000 or so years ago!...was he right?....YEP!
Wonder why?..."Your making a den of sinners, robbers and thieves"...who?, they who held the IDOL dear, and said I need this to live..but it belongs to Caesar...and asked for it to be given..and demanded we use it...and enforce it...with swords, guns, and bombs, Murder....and the supporters of it....who are they?...the brainwashed!
And what commandment are they now breaking again with it?...thow shall not Kill!...which has been another commandment broken since the fall from EDEN..because they did not do the service of tending and keeping all.
Not all Christians are alike and neither are all Christian denominations. What I see far more often on these boards is lazy generalizations of Christians and Christianity. (Essentially "Christian" on these boards tends to mean a literal-minded and anti-intellectual kind of Protestantism) This is not always the case, some of you are a bit more versed in the diversity within Christianity than others, but it's pretty common.
Still I would agree that the majority of people seem to prefer simple straightforward answers that don't require much reflection. Atheists in the US are often not lazy like that because they are a distrusted minority so that kind of laziness is counterproductive. (Catholics in parts of Appalachia or the Ozarks are also much less lazy, in my experience, than Catholics here in the Midwest and for similar reasons.) However if we were in a nation where atheism was commonplace, like Sweden or Japan, I'm sure you'd find many atheists who are lazy thinkers who just go with whatever Science news shows or their friends tell them.
If you want specifics on sexual morality I could probably give you moderately involved explanations that don't even refer to the Bible. I could make it even longer if I ever get around to reading things like "Theology of the Body" and the like.
I was actually going to say something like this, that not all Christians are this way. The problem is, as I believe someone already pointed out, is that even otherwise intelligent Christians who are not always this way eventually end up slipping into the "because the bible said so" mentality. most notably when their (outside the religion) reasoning becomes exhausted and they have to run for home base.
There are plenty of religious folks who actually think objectively and can bypass this shortsightedness. And I would say that a large portion of religious followers are rational minded people. But religious systems of operation are not inherently geared to accommodate this. People fall into this trap because religious systems of operation make it easy to do so - in many cases they encourage it.
With this I think the problem lies more within the implementation of the bible - the church, than the actual book or religion itself. Again, this is not to say that all churches are brainwashing factories, but many of them do implement a process that uses the same patterns. The monotheist religions are based on patriarchy and in patriarchal systems one is not supposed to question or challenge authority. While you can say that you have the ability to avoid this trap (and I think you have you're one of the most reasonable Christians I can think of on this board), the religious system does it's best to keep people from asking too many critical or challenging questions. I have been to many churches and have yet to come across one that encourages its flock to analyze the world outside of a biblical perspective.
There is a thread next door that is rather disturbing. It underlines what many here have said time and time again that for many Christians, there is NO thought put into anything they say. It is just simple, mindless parroting or hearsay and what they read and have been told are the facts. There is no separation of thought. I can't tell anyone of them that I am destroying infidels because the Koran tells me to, but they will (SELECTIVELY, mind you) admantly tell you they believe this or that because the Bible says so. When asked "why is homosexuality wrong/a sin," all they reply with is, "well the bible/god says it is" - end of story. They don't consider biology, the multiple things that goes on in the womb over a 9-month period or anything else related to genetic makeup that we have NO control over in most cases. None of that matters. The Bible trumps any and everything else even when facts to the contrary are slapping them in the face.
What's disturbing is that some of these people SEEM to be rather intelligent people otherwise, but for some reason, they suspend that intelligence to believe the wildest and weiredest of things.
You either really "don't get it"...or you do, and have put up this post in protest, because you "don't like it" (which is straight up bias and intolerance...but that's another issue I'll address at the end) and felt the need to complain.
Here, let me 'splain it to ya...I'll use this analogy:
In my home state of CT...where I am licensed to drive...there is a "seatbelt law". If you don't wear a seatbelt they will ticket you. They (people viewed to be the "Authorities") have determined that it is wrong to ride in a car without a seatbelt...and they will compel you to do so by way of legal and financial sanctions.
They don't consider--You can "fly" a dirtbike off a jump at 75mph...freeclimb a 800ft rock cliff...ride a skateboard down a metal railing over concrete steps (the State has even built "skateboard parks")...hangglide...skydive...box..."shoot" raging whitewater rapids in a little kyack...play backlot football with no pads...and even ride a motorcycle without a helmet (no helmet law in CT)...ALLLLLLL LEGALLY! None of that matters...you CAN'T legally be in a moving vehicle without wearing a seatbelt. You are not allowed to "opt out" or "disagree" with the law...their law trumps any and everthing else...it is what it is--end of story. WHHHHHHHHHHY?--BECAUSE THE AUTHORITIES SAID SO!!!!
Soooooo....every time I get in a car...I "buckle up"...and make everyone else do it too. I don't want to get "jammed up" with "the rules" put forth by the "Authorities".
Nearly a third of the worlds population views God and the Bible as an "Authority"...and the majority of others view some other Entity/Writing as an "Authority". There are laws/rules that must be followed according to the doctrines of the theologies...and there are purported sanctions for noncompliance. Soooooo...the adherents of those theologies will commonly note that "The Law" is what it is--end of story. WHHHHHHHHHHY?--BECAUSE THE AUTHORITIES SAID SO!!!!
Soooooo...they will tell you that they should comply, and so should you...to avoid getting "jammed up" with "the rules" put forth by the "Authorities".
You may not agree...they do.
You may think it's nonsense...they don't.
You may not like it---that's inconsequential...you are outnumbered at a rate of over 4 to 1. And even if it was the other way around, and you were part of the vast majority...doesn't matter, everyone is free to believe the way they chose.
Get it now? I suggest you learn to be less biased, and more tolerant of others differing beliefs, concepts, viewpoints, and traditions. You don't have to be...but know this...your displeasure changes nothing but the quality of YOUR emotional life experience.
Get it now? I suggest you learn to be less biased, and more tolerant of others differing beliefs, concepts, viewpoints, and traditions. You don't have to be...but know this...your displeasure changes nothing but the quality of YOUR emotional life experience.
In the real world when you have rulers of countries who state that their main goal is to kill all non-believers throughout the world I for one get worried.
I want no part of any religion which refuses to peacefully co-exist with other religions. History has show us what happens to a people who "turn the other cheek" -- they die, they are tortured, they become slaves. Their women become either worker bees or sex toys for the conquerors.
A basic law of nature: the strong survive, the weak perish. So you go give your enemy a hug and he returns the hug with the muzzle of an AK-47, kisses you on the cheek and says submit or die.
In the real world when you have rulers of countries who state that their main goal is to kill all non-believers throughout the world I for one get worried.
I want no part of any religion which refuses to peacefully co-exist with other religions. History has show us what happens to a people who "turn the other cheek" -- they die, they are tortured, they become slaves. Their women become either worker bees or sex toys for the conquerors.
A basic law of nature: the strong survive, the weak perish. So you go give your enemy a hug and he returns the hug with the muzzle of an AK-47, kisses you on the cheek and says submit or die.
The OP was mostly about people that VERBALLY DEBATE using Biblical Doctrine as a basis for ARGUMENT...and that was the context in which I made my post.
I don't suggest killing, torturing, enslaving, raping, and wielding AK-47s, to be "tolerated". And the OP even made note that they, "can't tell anyone of them that I am destroying infidels because the Koran tells me to..."
My suggestion "to be less biased, and more tolerant of others differing beliefs, concepts, viewpoints, and traditions"...is a hope for EVERYBODY. Though I am hip to the how evil and violent "the real world" can be...and I agree with your points relative to that.
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