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That's a good point, I actually feel safer when around people who know how to handle a firearm and have the necessary training and experience. I don't own any firearms myself, but shot them while in the US Navy way back in the 2000s. Been looking at the Glock Gen7 9mm as my first pistol.
I'm familiar with the OP coming from northern Colorado, I've lived there myself growing up in the 1990s and early 2000s. Open carry isn't as popular anywhere along the front range metro area since it's largely a suburban and urban corridor. It's not a part of their culture or the lack of education. Too many Californians and outsiders moved there during the last 2-3 decades, it shows politically. Their 2nd Amendment open carry laws in Colorado are so anomalous that they're based on local city/county and not statewide like Arizona. Until it changes up there, crime will continue to rise.
Along with getting your first gun you may want to consider getting a permit for these reasons:
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With a permit you have reciprocity with 37 other state's. You don't have to get a NICS check when buying a firearm from a licensed dealer. You can enter establishments that serve alcohol for consumption on their premises providing that it's not posted and you don't drink. You can lawfully carry a loaded firearm within 1000 ft. of a school grounds but not on the grounds itself.
Although I'm all for Constitutional Carry, those are the only reasons why I got a permit in Arizona. Especially if I want to go out to eat while armed and most restaurants serve wine and beer. Unless you have a state issued permit it is a federal crime to have a loaded firearm on your person or in your vehicle within 1000 ft. of a school's property.* Of course if you live within that area you can have a loaded firearm on your own property, but the moment you step out of there the firearm must be unloaded in a locked container separate from the ammunition.
God only knows how many streets, roads and highways fall within that distance? If you got stopped for any reason while otherwise lawfully carrying a loaded firearm you could be charged and prosecuted for violating a federal law. Along with "gun free zones" this is one of thee most asinine gun laws that was ever passed. As it has absolutely no affect on anyone who's intentions are to commit mass murder in a school, on it's grounds or within 1000 ft. of it.
Fortunately in Arizona you don't have to register your guns and have them listed on the permit like they do in New York. Arizona is a "shall issue" state which means that they can't deny anyone who is not a prohibited possessor as described by federal law from obtaining a permit. You take a state approved course, qualify at the range, submit a fingerprint card, application and pay a $60 fee to the Arizona Department of Public Safety and you're good to go. The permit's good for 5 years. To renew you just fill out the renewal application and pay the $43 fee.
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*What Does The Act Say and Mean?
It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. This Federal Law, which was signed into law in 1990 by President Bush, makes it illegal to have a firearm in a school zone. There are exceptions which will be covered below but first let us clarify some terms and definitions.
What is a School Zone?
As defined by federal law:
The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
So basically anything on school property or anything within 1000 feet of the school property.
What Kinds of Schools are Covered?
The law applies to all public, private, and parochial elementary schools and high schools. It does not apply to college campuses or Universities. The application to private schools is especially interesting.
What Are The Exceptions?
The prohibition of firearms in school zones does not apply if any of the following provisions are met.
If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license.
So, even in states with “Constitutional Carry or Permitless Carry” one should still consider obtaining a permit as it allows one to have a firearm within 1000 feet of a school. https://www.concealedcarry.com/law/d...ool-zones-act/
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 02-25-2022 at 05:02 PM..
Now, my question, concerning "open carry" is..........which states/cities have benefited (lowered crime) due to "open carry" and which have not? So, just how is Prescott's, and other cities in Arizona, like Tuscon, crime stats look like, since Arizona is an "open carry" state.
Lots of advocates for "open carry", but just how has it decreased crime in cities??
I'm not an advocate for open carry. As I stated in my post #31: "Myself, for strategic reasons I don't open carry in public as I don't want anyone to know that I'm armed."
I'm more of an advocate for people to be able to decide for themselves whichever way best suits them. They have their reasons for "open carry" and I have my reasons for carrying concealed. As long as it's lawful it's none of my business and not up to me to make that decision for them.
It's really not a matter of what the crime stats are for any given city or whether its lowered the crime rate or not? Some will argue it has, some will argue it hasn't and will provide their own statistics to back up their arguments. The bottom line is that under the 2nd Amendment we have the right to keep and bear arms. According to the Supreme Court's Heller/McDonald decision it is indeed an individual right unrelated to service in a militia and applies to weapons that are "hand held and in common use."
At least here in Arizona our state Constitution is unambiguous and quite clear:
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"The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."---Excerpt from the Constitution from the State of Arizona. Section 26. Bearing Arms.
As such and one thing is for sure criminals will never know whether their potential victim is armed or not unless obviously they are visibly carrying a sidearm. Unlike state's like New York where it's pretty much a given that their potential victim will not be armed because of the difficulty, expense and red tape that one has to go thru in order to get a permit not only to carry but just to own a handgun. But you don't need a permit to own a rifle or shotgun, certain semi automatic rifles so called "assault weapons" have to be registered with the state. Open carry in public is illegal in New York. Since you don't need a permit to own a rifle or shotgun in New York it would not be a wise idea to carry one around in public for self defense. Unless you don't mind going to prison.
Ever since Arizona allowed concealed carry with a permit and then dropped the permit requirement (Constitutional Carry) you don't see as many people carrying openly anymore. Some still do and no one gets all bent outta' shape over it. Because at one time open carry was the only way to lawfully carry here.
Now, my question, concerning "open carry" is..........which states/cities have benefited (lowered crime) due to "open carry" and which have not? So, just how is Prescott's, and other cities in Arizona, like Tuscon, crime stats look like, since Arizona is an "open carry" state.
Lots of advocates for "open carry", but just how has it decreased crime in cities??
Nobody has responded to my post here yet and I'd REALLY like to know.
Nobody has responded to my post here yet and I'd REALLY like to know.
I did respond in Post#42 right before yours. Either you haven't bothered to read it, you can't comprehend it or you just don't like my answer? Here for your reading pleasure I'll repeat parts of it again:
Quote:
It's really not a matter of what the crime stats are for any given city or whether its lowered the crime rate or not? Some will argue it has, some will argue it hasn't and will provide their own statistics to back up their arguments. The bottom line is that under the 2nd Amendment we have the right to keep and bear arms. According to the Supreme Court's Heller/McDonald decision it is indeed an individual right unrelated to service in a militia and applies to weapons that are "hand held and in common use."
At least here in Arizona our state Constitution is unambiguous and quite clear:
"The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."---Excerpt from the Constitution from the State of Arizona. Section 26. Bearing Arms.
As such and one thing is for sure criminals will never know whether their potential victim is armed or not unless obviously they are visibly carrying a sidearm. Unlike state's like New York where it's pretty much a given that their potential victim will not be armed because of the difficulty, expense and red tape that one has to go thru in order to get a permit not only to carry but just to own a handgun. But you don't need a permit to own a rifle or shotgun, certain semi automatic rifles so called "assault weapons" have to be registered with the state. Open carry in public is illegal in New York. Since you don't need a permit to own a rifle or shotgun in New York it would not be a wise idea to carry one around in public for self defense. Unless you don't mind going to prison.
To which I'll have to add: It's perfectly legal to openly carry a sidearm in Arizona, whether you like it or not? That just doesn't seem to sink in with you? If you do decide to move here that's just something that you'll have to get used to. A lot of people like it that way. If you move here and start stamping your feet and having a hissy fit over it. You can expect to get fierce opposition because of your positions. You'd be much better off moving to a state that suits your lifestyle, beliefs and all of the gun laws to your hearts content.
If you'd REALLY like to know the answer to your question. The internet is your friend, do your own research and look it up for yourself. You can start by looking up each and every state, city, town and county throughout the entire United States to find out what their individual gun laws are and what affect they've had on crime. Then compile all of the statistics and do a thorough analysis by comparing each and every one with each other. You're also going to have to take into consideration demographics and poverty levels. Both have a profound affect on crime. That should keep you busy for quite some time. Have fun!!!
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 02-26-2022 at 11:59 AM..
If you'd REALLY like to know the answer to your question. The internet is your friend, do your own research and look it up for yourself. You can start by looking up each and every state, city, town and county throughout the entire United States to find out what their individual gun laws are and what affect they've had on crime. Then compile all of the statistics and do a thorough analysis by comparing each and every one with each other. You're also going to have to take into consideration demographics and poverty levels. Both have a profound affect on crime. That should keep you busy for quite some time. Have fun!!!
I'll just add here that - yes, it is too difficult and there are waaay too many variables here to make a solid conclusion about whether Constitutional Carry reduces crime. Though one would certainly suspect so.....
I'll just add here that - yes, it is too difficult and there are waaay too many variables here to make a solid conclusion about whether Constitutional Carry reduces crime. Though one would certainly suspect so.....
That's for sure. Combined Prescott and Prescott Valley has a population of around 92,000 where open carry is legal then compare it to Camden NJ which has a population of around 80,000. Camden NJ resembles Dresden after World War Two. It's one of if not thee most dangerous cities in the United States. The only people that carry there are the gang bangers and criminals. Good luck getting a carry permit there. Forget about open carry.
On the flip side you can take Tucson AZ which has a population of around 532,000 and has a high crime rate. Then compare it to Mesa AZ which has a population of around 500,000 yet has half the crime rate as Tucson. Open carry is legal in both places. Arizona has a state preemption statute where cities and municipalities can not pass their own gun laws that are more restrictive than the state's.
The thing about state's that have either Constitutional Carry or Shall issue permits. Is that the little old lady that is about to become a victim may have grown up around firearms and knows damn well how to use one. As compared to the little old lady that lives in a state where it's damn near impossible and not worth the time and trouble to be able to carry a sidearm for personal self defense. Which little old lady poses the biggest threat to a potential assailant?
Some people are just used to open carry. Some may believe that because it's clearly visible that they are armed, criminals will avoid them like the plague. Whether they are right or wrong is not for me to decide. I'm just glad to live in a state the respects the 2nd Amendment and let's the individual decide what's best for them. Instead of some faceless bureaucrats or a bunch of people with a bad case of hoplophobia.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 02-26-2022 at 01:52 PM..
That's for sure. Combined Prescott and Prescott Valley has a population of around 92,000 where open carry is legal then compare it to Camden NJ which has a population of around 80,000. Camden NJ resembles Dresden after World War Two. It's one of if not thee most dangerous cities in the United States. The only people that carry there are the gang bangers and criminals. Good luck getting a carry permit there. Forget about open carry.
On the flip side you can take Tucson AZ which has a population of around 532,000 and has a high crime rate. Then compare it to Mesa AZ which has a population of around 500,000 yet has half the crime rate as Tucson. Open carry is legal in both places. Arizona has a state preemption statute where cities and municipalities can not pass their own gun laws that are more restrictive than the state's.
The thing about state's that have either Constitutional Carry or Shall issue permits. Is that the little old lady that is about to become a victim may have grown up around firearms and knows damn well how to use one. As compared to the little old lady that lives in a state where it's damn near impossible and not worth the time and trouble to be able to carry a sidearm for personal self defense. Which little old lady poses the biggest threat to a potential assailant?
Some people are just used to open carry. Some may believe that because it's clearly visible that they are armed, criminals will avoid them like the plague. Whether they are right or wrong is not for me to decide. I'm just glad to live in a state the respects the 2nd Amendment and let's the individual decide what's best for them. Instead of some faceless bureaucrats or a bunch of people with a bad case of hoplophobia.
Well, thanks for the info, but there will still be those that don't totally like either Concealed or Open Carry. As for us, we just don't, necessarily, want to live in an area where "gun protection" is a necessity. We aren't rich, for sure, but we aren't financially poor either. We can afford a descent area to live, where some can't.
As for us, we just don't, necessarily, want to live in an area where "gun protection" is a necessity.
You're missing the point. Again. It is not a 'necessity' to have a weapon in any area in AZ.....it is a freedom and a right that people take advantage of. That's all. Period.
You're missing the point. Again. It is not a 'necessity' to have a weapon in any area in AZ.....it is a freedom and a right that people take advantage of. That's all. Period.
Not necessarily "missing the point". If someone likes to "open carry" or "conceal" that's entirely up to them, but, not all states allow it and probably for good reasons.........I don't know. Also, there are those that don't feel comfortable seeing "open carry", so they should live somewhere where it doesn't happen. Concealed doesn't bother most people, because a firearm isn't outright showing.
It might be hard to understand that there are those on both sides of the issues, including states that "approve" and those that don't.
You're missing the point. Again. It is not a 'necessity' to have a weapon in any area in AZ.....it is a freedom and a right that people take advantage of. That's all. Period.
It doesn't get any simpler than that!!!
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