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That I have an opinion (relative to fact) that counters yours does not translate to a desire to control the conversation. Stick to the thread topic rather than demonstrating an unhealthy attachment to the concept of (or belief in) making it personal.
That I have an opinion (relative to fact) that counters yours does not translate to a desire to control the conversation. Stick to the thread topic rather than demonstrating an unhealthy attachment to the concept of (or belief in) making it personal.
"Doomed" is a strong word. And honestly...I don't think we're doomed at all. From the time we are born, we start forming our idea of reality. We only know what we can sense with our 5 senses...we don't even have the concept (yet) that there is 'more' out there.
And as we grow, our world expands, and it generally continues that way throughout our lives. Sometimes our thoughts, values, and character get more cemented with time, but sometimes all that becomes modified and expanded with time and experience.
As we know attachment to material things and people brings suffering when you lose them. But attachment to ideas and concepts like religion, ideology, and philosophy are also doomed to failure. Because we are limited to our mind and our limited senses we may not fully grasp reality and it's true nature. Even trivial ideas and assumptions you would never dare question could be wrong in some incomprehensible way that your limited mind cannot understand. And you would have no idea either way.
Attachment to and craving for material things bring suffering because we fear losing them, we are not satisfied and always wantmore, and thus ultimately they do not bring the happiness we imagined. Instead we are left with anxiety and wants.
So to avoid suffering one should try not to get attached or crave for material things. (Vedanta and Buddhism)
There is no parallel as such to having thoughts, concepts, religion, ideology, and philosophy. If we have a mind and reasoning capability, we can always evolve and find satisfaction in our knowledge.
There is no parallel between the two, it is a false equivalency.
Sometimes, it is okay for people to be wrong. Sometimes, it is not. It is better to figure out quickly when it is not okay to be wrong taking into account opinions that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
Philosophy is the study of knowledge, existence and reality relative to an academic discipline; it is not an ‘idea or concept’ to which one becomes ‘attached’ or ‘believes’. What is ‘doomed to failure’ regarding such?
Yes, it is an academic discipline, but the term philosophy can also be used informally where a person's theory on how things are is mostly speculative.
Yes, it is an academic discipline, but the term philosophy can also be used informally where a person's theory on how things are is mostly speculative.
It doesn’t change the fact shattered assumptions theory (or social psychology/trauma) is not philosophy. That said, we are in a Philosophy Forum; if the OP is speaking to a specific belief/philosophy as being harmful, per the thread (as opposed to ‘concepts and ideas’ or even people), perhaps she should mention said philosophy, specifically.
Is that a fair expectation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephStalin
As we know attachment to material things and people brings suffering when you lose them.
Hence the reason I asked the OP what, from his/her perspective, is ‘doomed to failure’ regarding such (particularly since he/she also mentioned attachment to persons). It is loss relative to the latter, not attachment, which may bring suffering.
It doesn’t change the fact shattered assumptions theory (or social psychology/trauma) is not philosophy. That said, we are in a Philosophy Forum; if the OP is speaking to a specific belief/philosophy as being harmful, per the thread (as opposed to ‘concepts and ideas’ or even people), perhaps she should mention said philosophy, specifically.
Is that a fair expectation?
Hence the reason I asked the OP what, from his/her perspective, is ‘doomed to failure’ regarding such (particularly since he/she also mentioned attachment to persons). It is loss relative to the latter, not attachment, which may bring suffering.
Your last paragraph is not clear to me.
Perhaps there was an attempt to compare and contrast two schools of thought: the material world and the ideal world. However, in my experience, this distinction is often made in order to transition out of attachment to people and things for the purpose of relying on ideas and concepts. The goal is usually to ease suffering. But in the end, according to the OP, both lead down the same road.
While shattered assumptions theory comes from psychology, it is an attempt to provide a possible explanation of the sense of failure discussed in the OP. Being aware of the concept could help avoid it. The theory may not belong in the philosophy forum, but it may not be off-topic in this thread.
But to answer your question, your expectation is not unreasonable. Yet, somehow I think the OP is challenging the very act of developing concepts and ideas and so is not targeting any specific one. What I am left wondering is whether or not philosophy should actually deal with avoiding failure. It sounds more like psychology.
Attachment to and craving for material things bring suffering because we fear losing them, we are not satisfied and always want more, and thus ultimately they do not bring the happiness we imagined. Instead we are left with anxiety and wants.
So to avoid suffering one should try not to get attached or crave for material things. (Vedanta and Buddhism)
Philosophically, the question is, ‘what are you afraid of?’ or ‘why aren’t you satisfied with what you have’? In other words, sans personal relationships in our lives, material things are essentially meaningless (and replaceable). However, this certainly doesn’t mean material things are evil or shouldn’t be enjoyed (at least from my perspective) as long as it it is not the focus of one’s life, in and of itself.
That said, suffering relative to loss/death is a part of life. How does ‘Vedanta’ expect one to avoid it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02
While shattered assumptions theory comes from psychology, it is an attempt to provide a possible explanation of the sense of failure discussed in the OP.
Point being, the OP (bizarrely) mentioned ‘doomed failure’ in the opening post but has yet to elaborate/discuss it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephStalin
As we know attachment to material things and people brings suffering when you lose them.
OP, if you’re suggesting we not become attached to people relative to the fear of loss, that is, indeed, abnormal psychology.
Philosophically, the question is, ‘what are you afraid of?’ or ‘why aren’t you satisfied with what you have’? In other words, sans personal relationships in our lives, material things are essentially meaningless (and replaceable). However, this certainly doesn’t mean material things are evil or shouldn’t be enjoyed (at least from my perspective) as long as it it is not the focus of one’s life, in and of itself.
That said, suffering relative to loss/death is a part of life. How does ‘Vedanta’ expect one to avoid it?
Evil was never mentioned other than by you. There is no such thing as evil.
Relationships are no different from material things - both are possessions. My car is not different from my wife. Both arise as mine in thought, as a my thought. Fear and anxiety arise from losing them and the discontent from the fact that there are better, and more, newer and shinier things out there to possess and we dont have them, and thus feel deprived. All those are thoughts. The initial happiness of possession becomes fear and loathing and insatiable need.
Vedanta does not say you can avoid suffering, suffering exists. The discontent and neediness is in the mind, and that is where suffering also exists. The solution, or salvation, lies in curing your mind and the thoughts that it produces. It requires a way of looking at the world and developing qualities of equanimity, forbearance, patience, etc. Most of all realizing the truth that happiness does not lie in possessions, but in freedom from the need to possess
Evil was never mentioned other than by you. There is no such thing as evil.
Relationships are no different from material things - both are possessions. My car is not different from my wife. Both arise as mine in thought, as a my thought. Fear and anxiety arise from losing them and the discontent from the fact that there are better, and more, newer and shinier things out there to possess and we dont have them, and thus feel deprived. All those are thoughts. The initial happiness of possession becomes fear and loathing and insatiable need.
Vedanta does not say you can avoid suffering, suffering exists. The discontent and neediness is in the mind, and that is where suffering also exists. The solution, or salvation, lies in curing your mind and the thoughts that it produces. It requires a way of looking at the world and developing qualities of equanimity, forbearance, patience, etc. Most of all realizing the truth that happiness does not lie in possessions, but in freedom from the need to possess
If someone is looking at another sentient beings as a possession that's a problem.
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