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And yet I am told to keep the gay away right on this very forum. I am told that the mere mention of gay in any discussion here is off-topic and offensive.
Perhaps it'd help if gay was keep to gay threads and wasn't the core of everything in a person's life. I have a variety of associations that drive me whether it has to do with my job or beliefs or hobbies or other interests, I do not let one become the core of every conversation. It comes across as juvenile and socially retarded (using retarded in the classical sense). It's like the guy who into something like anime and you bring up the weather and he steers the conversation towards anime and then you bring up politics and he steers the conversation towards anime and then you talk about owning a home and he steers the conversation towards anime. After a bit you resign yourself to the fact that when it comes to social skills/interpersonal skills, the guy's a loser.
Before I arrived in Omaha I asked a few moving related questions and then lurked on a few of the other threads. I was a first amazed at the amount of times "gay" ended up in a conversation or how many times a "gay thread" was started in relation to other threads.
What I found most hysterical though was DTOLuv. In a religious thread DTO inserted some stuff about homosexuality and just kept going on seemingly trying to disrupt the thread. When someone pointed out that homesexuality was off-topic and to please not be disruptive, DTO went on.
Then I saw a thread that was about homosexuality and someone interjected something about religion. DTO became all incensed and asked why gays just couldn't be left alone. The hypocrisy was laughable it was so blatant.
And that's the thing that gays and their supporters miss. When it's gays and them interjecting in everything with homosexuality or posting thread after thread after thread on the issue the theory is it's great and to be celebrated. Yet when it's about religion or even a secular view that is anti-gay, it's bigoted.
It's obvious that the gays are bigoted against any conservative religious beliefs or any secular anti-gay positions. If you believe the Bible, the Quran, The Torah, or any other religious document, as written, the you're a bigot. If you have anti-gay beliefs based on anything from even just a secular position, say basic human physiology, again, you're a bigot. You don't understand diversity or tolerance.
When you point out that diversity and tolerance do not equate to acceptance and that a society can happily coexist even if people must agree to disagree then, again, you're bigoted.
Now if you shout down any ideological opponent while you pull out your tolerance/diversity card then you're obviously an intellectual no matter how vapid, empty, and ad-hominem filled your rheotric is.
Try and start and intellectually honest dialog about homosexuality and see how long it takes the "tolerant" to start the ad hominem attacks about your faith, your views, or your educational level.
It's like the guy who into something like anime and you bring up the weather and he steers the conversation towards anime and then you bring up politics and he steers the conversation towards anime and then you talk about owning a home and he steers the conversation towards anime.
In otherwords, the problem is that some people have to make it all about 'me, me ME and whats important to ME!' This is annoying no matter what their personal cause is... I applaud those people for their passion, but they need a more productive way to channel it in order to do some good in the world. The best way to get people to confront things they don't want to think about is to get them to REALLY listen to you by engaging in a conversation with them, not by yelling loudly enough to drown out everyone else.
Last edited by vpandora; 04-21-2009 at 12:10 PM..
Reason: forgot a word
In otherwords, the problem is that some people have to make it all about 'me, me ME and whats important to ME!' This is annoying no matter what their personal cause is... I applaud those people for their passion, but they need a more productive way to channel it in order to do some good in the world. The best way to get people to confront things they don't want to think about is to get them to REALLY listen to you by engaging in a conversation with them, not by yelling loudly enough to drown out everyone else.
Perhaps it'd help if gay was keep to gay threads and wasn't the core of everything in a person's life. I have a variety of associations that drive me whether it has to do with my job or beliefs or hobbies or other interests, I do not let one become the core of every conversation. It comes across as juvenile and socially retarded (using retarded in the classical sense). It's like the guy who into something like anime and you bring up the weather and he steers the conversation towards anime and then you bring up politics and he steers the conversation towards anime and then you talk about owning a home and he steers the conversation towards anime. After a bit you resign yourself to the fact that when it comes to social skills/interpersonal skills, the guy's a loser.
Before I arrived in Omaha I asked a few moving related questions and then lurked on a few of the other threads. I was a first amazed at the amount of times "gay" ended up in a conversation or how many times a "gay thread" was started in relation to other threads.
What I found most hysterical though was DTOLuv. In a religious thread DTO inserted some stuff about homosexuality and just kept going on seemingly trying to disrupt the thread. When someone pointed out that homesexuality was off-topic and to please not be disruptive, DTO went on.
Then I saw a thread that was about homosexuality and someone interjected something about religion. DTO became all incensed and asked why gays just couldn't be left alone. The hypocrisy was laughable it was so blatant.
And that's the thing that gays and their supporters miss. When it's gays and them interjecting in everything with homosexuality or posting thread after thread after thread on the issue the theory is it's great and to be celebrated. Yet when it's about religion or even a secular view that is anti-gay, it's bigoted.
It's obvious that the gays are bigoted against any conservative religious beliefs or any secular anti-gay positions. If you believe the Bible, the Quran, The Torah, or any other religious document, as written, the you're a bigot. If you have anti-gay beliefs based on anything from even just a secular position, say basic human physiology, again, you're a bigot. You don't understand diversity or tolerance.
When you point out that diversity and tolerance do not equate to acceptance and that a society can happily coexist even if people must agree to disagree then, again, you're bigoted.
Now if you shout down any ideological opponent while you pull out your tolerance/diversity card then you're obviously an intellectual no matter how vapid, empty, and ad-hominem filled your rheotric is.
Try and start and intellectually honest dialog about homosexuality and see how long it takes the "tolerant" to start the ad hominem attacks about your faith, your views, or your educational level.
Religious arguments are considered bigoted because they are about taking rights away and keeping a group of people as second class citizens because "the bible says so." Read the part of the constitution that expresses the separation of church and state. The gay point of view is about equal rights. Get over it!!!
Last edited by SurfOmaha; 04-22-2009 at 01:03 AM..
OmahaBound is just saying, he'd like to express his opinion on the issue without being insulted. He has every right whether you agree or not. Personally, I think the church is wrong on gay marrige, but Surf is absolutely horrendous at promoting his point. So really, I'm not on anyones side in this one. But OmahaBound makes a good point, and Surf should be as open-minded as he encourages others to be, by trying to see what OmahaBound is saying about the hypocracy of some gay conversations on these forums.
And that's the thing that gays and their supporters miss. When it's gays and them interjecting in everything with homosexuality or posting thread after thread after thread on the issue the theory is it's great and to be celebrated. Yet when it's about religion or even a secular view that is anti-gay, it's bigoted.
It's obvious that the gays are bigoted against any conservative religious beliefs or any secular anti-gay positions. If you believe the Bible, the Quran, The Torah, or any other religious document, as written, the you're a bigot. If you have anti-gay beliefs based on anything from even just a secular position, say basic human physiology, again, you're a bigot. You don't understand diversity or tolerance.
When you point out that diversity and tolerance do not equate to acceptance and that a society can happily coexist even if people must agree to disagree then, again, you're bigoted.
One can have an "intellectually open and honest" conversation and still come across as bigoted. It depends on your audience. But as you say tolerance is a different beastie. I'll tell you right now that I am bigoted against conservative religions, but I tolerate people that express those views. I just think they are wrong. We manage to co-exist. But the difference in this situation is that those members of society are not standing in the way of my civil rights (although they try...they have not had success banning abortion or squirreling with other gyno-rights. If they had I would be much less tolerant!).
Yes, as a supporter of gay rights your expression of an anti-gay opinion would make you a bigot in my eyes. You can be a real nice guy and still be a bigot. My grandfather is like this...nice guy, but the most deeply racist SOB you'll ever meet. I manage our interactions accordingly (as does he).
One can have an "intellectually open and honest" conversation and still come across as bigoted. It depends on your audience. But as you say tolerance is a different beastie. I'll tell you right now that I am bigoted against conservative religions, but I tolerate people that express those views. I just think they are wrong. We manage to co-exist. But the difference in this situation is that those members of society are not standing in the way of my civil rights (although they try...they have not had success banning abortion or squirreling with other gyno-rights. If they had I would be much less tolerant!).
Yes, as a supporter of gay rights your expression of an anti-gay opinion would make you a bigot in my eyes. You can be a real nice guy and still be a bigot. My grandfather is like this...nice guy, but the most deeply racist SOB you'll ever meet. I manage our interactions accordingly (as does he).
So basically what you're saying, Stacy, is that your bigotry is okay while others is not?
Depending on how broadly you define the terms "bigot" and "racist", every single one of us is both. For instance, I'm not particularly attracted to black ladies. I'm perfectly happy with my beautiful white wife of over 25 years. Some people would say that's racist. I say it's simply being faithful to my spouse.
Also, people use the terms racist and bigot far too freely, and throw them around as accusations to the point where they just don't mean anything anymore.
So basically what you're saying, Stacy, is that your bigotry is okay while others is not?
Depending on how broadly you define the terms "bigot" and "racist", every single one of us is both. For instance, I'm not particularly attracted to black ladies. I'm perfectly happy with my beautiful white wife of over 25 years. Some people would say that's racist. I say it's simply being faithful to my spouse.
Also, people use the terms racist and bigot far too freely, and throw them around as accusations to the point where they just don't mean anything anymore.
Agree...this is exactly what I am saying. We are all bigoted in some way, and we all think our personal bigotry is no big deal while decrying that of others because it offends us. This is why tolerance is so important. It keeps society civil, keeps us from killing each other and even occasionally allows us some insight into the other side of the issue.
Does that mean being a bigot has no meaning...no, but I certainly think the meaning is more nuanced than many.
Religious arguments are considered bigoted because they are about taking rights away and keeping a group of people as second class citizens because "the bible says so." Read the part of the constitution that expresses the separation of church and state. The gay point of view is about equal rights. Get over it!!!
Get over the fact that you and I have the same rights and that you are pushing for more rights based on behavior.
Lte me guess. You're going to say I have the right to marry the person I love and you don't. Bzzzzzt!!! Wrong.
I have the right to marry a person of the opposite sex just like you do and there are pros and cons in doing so.
I'm sorry you haven't figured out basic human physiology at your age. Get over it!!!
And regarding the Constitution, I suggest you read it someday. Then I suggest you read up on how that government was instituted by the men who wrote it. The guys who used government funds to by Bibles. The ones who supported government religion at the state level. The ones who paid for a government chaplain and so on. Quit reading revisionist propaganda.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redressof grievances."
You can pretend that pursuing so called gay rights is some sort of civil rights exercise but the founders didn't think so. Slavery existed during those times and was a contentious issue. There was pressure to set things straight right away and abolish slavery but the founders knew it wasn't the time. Homsexuality, however, was not an issue. It was condemned and that's why people were closeted.
Now if you'd like to add rights for gays, I fully support you having an amendment written and passed doing so. Until then, you have to settle for having the same exact rights heterosexuals have. Get over it!!!
One can have an "intellectually open and honest" conversation and still come across as bigoted. It depends on your audience. But as you say tolerance is a different beastie. I'll tell you right now that I am bigoted against conservative religions, but I tolerate people that express those views. I just think they are wrong. We manage to co-exist. But the difference in this situation is that those members of society are not standing in the way of my civil rights (although they try...they have not had success banning abortion or squirreling with other gyno-rights. If they had I would be much less tolerant!).
It's unfortunate that you celebrate the right to have abortion (murder a baby) as a form of birth control (that's primarily what it's used for and legally protected as) so a woman can be inconvenienced with a living being because she failed to take precautions and not become pregnant.
Quote:
Yes, as a supporter of gay rights your expression of an anti-gay opinion would make you a bigot in my eyes. You can be a real nice guy and still be a bigot. My grandfather is like this...nice guy, but the most deeply racist SOB you'll ever meet. I manage our interactions accordingly (as does he).
Like you, I admit to my bigotry. The problem is that there are plenty of bigots on the pro-gay side who are blind and think the only bigotry comes from the other side. They say the religious or conservatives or what have you want to force something down their throats while they themselves are trying force their agenda down other people's throats.
While it seems I haven't found much to agree with you about, at least I can say you're honest and relize we are all bigoted to some degree and that we are trying to figure out how to live and let live without forcing others to accept our beliefs.
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