[Lawman_Kyle]

Lets not hijack the thread folks....the OP was asking about the C. Flag, not a debate on Indian history. The Oklahoma forum is no place for an Indian debate lol....too many of us with tribal blood flowing through our veins not get offended

[_redbird_]

The point is, Oklahoma is diverse even from a tribal perspective. So how we Natives view the Confederate flag will vary also.

Here in Holdenville, we have all kinds. We have straight up peckerwoods to Seminole Creeks with full African American features. I went to wally world today and was amazed at how friendly everyone is, in spite of our cultural differences. That is what I like about this part of Oklahoma.

[Guthrie Kid]

"peckerwoods"

You are confusing us all?

[OK_Bound11]

Originally Posted by LadyRobyn

First... Welcome to the OK State section. Oddly enough when I hear the words "Border State" I've never immediately thought of New York.

Live in NY, from Kentucky. Should have clarified…

At any rate, this is encouraging indeed. And interesting Indian history, even if I don't necessarily agree with the interpretations, but all stories have two sides at least.

[Goodpasture]

the Swiss and Irish side of my family wore blue, the Cherokee side wore gray. the Swiss and Irish side were farmers and merchants. The Cherokee side owned slaves. the other quarter was Polynesian and mostly played ukelele and had luaus.........

the Cherokee still resists the incorporation of former slaves and their descendants into their nation.

Neither the blue nor the gray had any compunction about native american treatment. Both the Blue and the Gray practiced genocide against the native people, not to mention wholesale theft of land and property. I have no animus against the blue or the gray, but don't expect me to honor the stars and bars as anything but a failed footnote of history that represented nothing but selfish Europeans quibbling over who got to own whom.

[_redbird_]

I helped an elderly man (age 79) who's car broke down on the side of the road. I wrote about it about six months ago. His father came to OK from TN to see an Indian medicine man back around 1919 because his father was told he had 6 months to live by an MD.

I love history and love hearing elderly people tell about history. That is far more interesting to me than history books.

I have no beef with the confederate flag. To me what matters is treating others with respect.

[riceweevil]

Speaking of flags I notice when traveling in Texas that the Texas State Flag is flying everywhere. This is definitely noticeable when compared to other states.

[LadyRobyn]

Originally Posted by Lawman_Kyle

Lets not hijack the thread folks....the OP was asking about the C. Flag, not a debate on Indian history. The Oklahoma forum is no place for an Indian debate lol....too many of us with tribal blood flowing through our veins not get offended

Very true Kyle. But! As long as everyone can keep their tempers in check, and not get overly defensive it could be a good learning experience.

To all: The Confederate Flag means different things to different people and in Oklahoma (moreso than other States) there IS a Native American element to be considered and it varies from Tribe to Tribe.

I know for a FACT that we have several members from different Tribes posting here and I find their knowledge on the subject invaluable and fascinating.

Also keep in mind that words sometimes have more than one meaning, so TRY not to make broad assumptions. OK?

[e_cuyler]

It was pretty commonly flown in my hometown in Eastern Oklahoma--the county it is in is actually majority Indian. Personally, I would not fly it, but it is not really a big deal to me.

The history of the Cherokee's alliance with the Confederacy is pretty complicated, I don't know if it's even something where you could really say that the Cherokee as a group supported the South.

The current controversy over the Cherokee and the descendants of slaves is more to do with tribal sovereignty and less to do with race. Or at least, that's what most in the tribe would tell you, although I personally can see both sides of the argument. I don't think it would make any difference what type of people wanting membership in the tribe were, though, I think you would have gotten the same vote among tribal members when it came to allowing membership to people who did not actually have Cherokee blood. But again, that's another issue that people fight about a lot. Pretty cool how people on this board can have good discussions without getting carried away.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by _redbird_

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads. But since you bring it up, you state, "it embodies the spirit of 1776, freedom from an oppressive government". Surely you realize from the Indigenous Peoples standpoint, the US Government beginning in 1776 went way beyond oppression towards Native Americans, right? And Andrew Jackass Jackson embodies that oppressive spirit to some Native American tribes from the southeast. I'm just saying....

And you realize Andrew Jackson was the only President to ignore the US Supreme Court? Oh, wait a minute, life, liberty and equality was for Americans, and Native Americans were not accorded that status until 1924. I am not trying to start a war either, I just want you to realize we all have our own unique perspectives, as do those in the border states who are fleeing oppression, albeit illegally, into this country.

I am not saying the confederate flag symbolizes that oppresssion, I am pointing out the obvious from another perspective. If you flee oppression to begin your own oppression, then it appears to be an embodiment with two perspectives.

I could care less if someone flies the confederate flag, like Lawman_Kyle states, it is not uncommon in our area. Just don't try and sell the embodiment of freedom tale to me.

>>>>>
And Andrew Jackass Jackson embodies that oppressive spirit to some Native American tribes from the southeast. I'm just saying.
<<<<<

Yes, agree with you totally here. You better not mutter the name Andrew Jackson in front of my Choctaw momma unless you want an earful.

My family (both Native American and Anglo) fought solely for the South. I obviously view the Confederate Flag as something to be proud of ONLY because my relatives fought for the Confederacy. Other than that fact alone I have no great attachment to the Confederacy or the Stars&Bars....and I'm not one to be one of those "the South shall rise again" kinda guys.

I think it is fine to fly the Confederate Flag. However, each person that flies it should do so with some degree of temperance/wisdom and see how it affects his/her neighbors. If my neighbors were offended by it, then I would take mine down. KEY POINT = value the opinions of others and strive not to be offensive.