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Looking for a "liberal" neighborhood in Oklahoma doesn't apply anymore, anymore than looking for a "conservative" neighborhood in San Francisco. Okay, so if you are a Republican you probably don't stand a chance of getting elected dog catcher in this state, but if you are a democrat you probably don't have a chance of being elected to the House of Representatives in Congress. Go figure. It probably has something to do with religion. Personally, I can't remember the last time a liberal or conservative did anything worth a d**n in Washington.
But, no place in the US is what it used to be. Only the most die-hard pioneer type in the mountains of Alaska doesn't have satellite television or Internet access. You can get access to the New York Times, the London Times, Le Monde, or Pravda in Oklahoma just as quickly as you can in New York or Los Angeles.
The only major, and important, difference between living in Manhattan and Oklahoma City (or some other burg) is that in Oklahoma you have a chance to live an acre away from your neighbor, whereas in NYC you must put up with listening to your neighbor brush his or her teeth.
Okay, if you want to go to a Broadway play and live in OKC you will have to sit on an airplane for a couple hours, and stay in an expensive hotel with fresh soap and thick towels, but if you live in NYC and want to go and see the same play you will have to go home to your cockroach-infested micro-flat that cost you $500,000 for a single room, and the towels may be dirty because every time you take the elevator down to the basement with your laundry you discover that several of the washing machines aren't working and the ones that do work are full, with laundry bags lined up. Get used to it....
Personally, I prefer the 5-acre estate at $500,000 to the studio apartment in Manhatten, San Francisco, or Seattle (also at $500,000), and I prefer spending the travel time to the theater on a jet than on the subway.
That's just me, however, and everyone has a different take on these things.
The fundamental question, however, of whether liberal or conservative, let's be honest. That doesn't affect (except in 1970s Southern California) how you buy your lettuce or oranges (which come from Peru, Chile, and Mexico, anyway), nor does it affect how you watch TV in the evening, or whether you pop a frozen food into your oven in the evening. Whether you think Darwin was correct or want to take a literal interpretation of the Bible should not affect how you change lanes in traffic or what you buy at Sam's Club.
Whether you are liberal or conservative doesn't really affect how you cook your meatballs and pasta. Some liberals floss daily, as do some conservatives. Liberals and conservatives both max out their credit cards, and both watch brain-dead television shows. Both try to cheat the government. All hate the war in Iraq and blame the other side for the failure of G. Bush.
What this country needs is fewer people identifying themselves as "liberal" or "conservative" and more people willing to sit out on the front porch and churn some ice cream with their neighbors. We would all be better off and much happier....
As far as the "liberals" and "conservatives", a curse on both your houses. You are all bringing this nation to ruin.
Guru's Guru ... may I ... um ... make a suggestion? This short thread hasn't allowed much of you to unfold onto the page ... but ... perhaps I'm wrong ... but given the name you selected: "Guru's Guru" ... and I may be projecting ... but your tone ... well ... you might be happier looking into Missouri or Arkansas. (Both have cheap land too ... oh ... and Kansas!)
I sense you'll need some intellectual stimulation. I've never been to Oklahoma ... and I'm looking into rural land there too ... but I already know that I'm not going to fit in. (I AM from Berkeley.) The stance I'm taking is that ... at this stage in my life, I don't have to. If I can find a woman who'll follow me out to that land (... or even a woman from there...), then most of the battle will be won.
I also have been attending Pentecostal churches and I've been able to enjoy them and I've been able to develop inner bridges I'll need when I move to the more conservative Midwest.
One of the things I DO NOT plan to do is challenge the status quo's thinking. It is what it is. If I don't like it, I can damn well move. I don't have a need to have an entire town against me ... so I'll try to fit in where I can, and use the rest of the time to work on the projects I'm yearning to create.
Hope you can relate and won't take any of this in a negative light.
This is an interesting site that I only recently discovered. I find the posts on this "liberal" thread most interesting having grown up in Southern California and spent my adult life raising my children in the San Francisco East Bay Area until 2004 when I moved to Hawaii. I know Berkeley, San Francisco, Oakland, Alameda and San Leandro intimately. Also I am a well traveled individual having been to Spain, Portugal, Austria, Germany, Italy, Thailand, The Philippines, Hong Kong, Laos and Cambodia (I may have left a couple places out-oh yes, I went missing in Japan when I was 12 or 13 years old). The reason I'm telling you of my travels is so you know my reality. I've never been anywhere near Oklahoma and it is as exotic and foreign to me as say, maybe Laos or Cambodia is to most of the readers of this forum. On March 8th I learned that my mother, Wilma Faye Baude who died many years ago and her family was from Crowder, OK a small town south of Muskogee. So I am trying to learn about my roots. This seems like a good place to contact folks who know about Oklahoma so if anyone would like to communicate with me who actually lives anywhere close to Muskogee or, even better, Crowder, my email is Saronova@hotmail.com.
Mahalo--Saro
All of Oklahoma is very conservative. Even Tulsa, OKC, or Norman, they are just less conservative than other parts. If you like Berkley, you will not like Oklahoma unless you are very tolerant and have a cast iron stomach. Oklahoma is still one of the few states where a candidate can use homophobia to rally support- in the rest of the country it just is not acceptable anymore.
Having said that, Oklahoma has its share of closet liberals, free thinkers, irreligious people, and libertarians who just want to be left alone. At one time in the 20's and 30's, socialism actually had a foothold there (Eugene Debbs won alot of votes in Oklahoma), and plenty of older people revere FDR and the New Deal, but the politics has gravitated reactionary over the decades, especially after the oil bust in the 80's.
I will say Tulsa is the better city to live in. It is the historic Indian capital of Oklahoma and is one of the older cities with many older buildings and alot of history. Oklahoma City is a modern city built for cars, and it doesn't have the same kind of appeal. It is also on the prarie, flat, and the ground is reddish. It may or may not be pretty to you... do you think the steppes of Russia sound charming? If not, then the "Green Country" area is probably more to your liking.
Interesting reading.. Just found this site.. Having lived here for all but three years of my almost 58 years on this earth I still find it interesting how one's perspective is so different although they are looking and/or living at the same location. Keep it up... But what is more "interesting" is how some still have to "square off"... As Rodney King so eloquently put it, "Can't we all just get along?" Unfortunately, I guess not...
Interesting reading.. Just found this site.. Having lived here for all but three years of my almost 58 years on this earth I still find it interesting how one's perspective is so different although they are looking and/or living at the same location. Keep it up... But what is more "interesting" is how some still have to "square off"... As Rodney King so eloquently put it, "Can't we all just get along?" Unfortunately, I guess not...
Yeah, these posts kind of make me scratch my head as well. Everyone is so into preaching about diversity and a diversity of opinions; especially those on the left.
But, when it comes down to it, they tend to flock with their own just like everyone else. Don't get me wrong, I'm not berating the OP of this thread, I just don't look at the general politics of a city on determining whether or not I would live there. The things that make the most sense to me are crime, standard of living, and so on. Whether or not a city is liberal or conservative alone has no bearing on whether or not I would live there. I have several very liberal friends and a couple of times I'll throw out a city or state that I think that I'd like to live in and most of the times the responses I get are based solely on whether the area is "liberal enough" for them to be able and stand to live there.. Go figure.
Libertarians vs. Liberals: A bit of clarification.
Well, this thread just goes on and on. I am pretty conservative and even go to church--lol--but I am not a rabid rightist. My experience in Oklahoma has been that people look at your actions more than your words. That has already been posted. Someone mentioned Goldwater and someone else Eugene Debs as part of the Oklahoma mindset. Goldwater was not so much of a conservative as he was a Libertarian. He was for private property and a strong military but was not too upset about "Gays" as long as they were law-abiding and did not flaunt their sexuality by dressing up as nuns or drag queens and riding on a float in San Fran. If they want to hold hands in public, fine. But, hey, I don't even like to see heterosexuals French kissing in public--if you know what I mean. Heavy petting belongs at home.
During the Dust Bowl years and even earlier, may Okies felt the big Wall Steet elite and the railroads were exploiting them. They became Populists but not socialists. Eugene Debs was a socialist. They wanted more government regulation of big business, but they wanted to keep their property private and their families strong. Can you say a cross between Will Rogers cowboy and FDR paternalistic Democrat?
The general idea was to be left alone to pursue their own dreams. I have found Oklahomans to be a hybrid of Conservative and Libertarian for the most part. Berkley-style in your face Liberalism is not appreciated. People value family, land (property), and privacy above all. They generally want to be left alone, but will lend a helping hand if asked.
I bet there are more Libertarians or true free thinkers and not some sort of Marxist ideologues inhabiting those art galleries in and around Norman. And most of the old oil men were more Libertarian than Conservative. Heck, Bartlesville got a Frank Lloyd Wright skyscraper that is as ecclectic and innovative as any I have seen.
So, if you are liberal but civil and not aggressive about it, you can meet at the Unitarian church and have a great time in old Oklahoma. Just don't get in-your-face-- and try a little kindness. As to the in-your-face Conservatives I think they are a distinct minority in Oklahoma. But they will become real screamers if you confront them in a rude way or try to run their lives. Yes, just like liberals do when confronted by rude Conservatives.
Be nice and carefully share your beliefs. You will get along. But, admittedly, you will not change the world for liberalism with your base in Oklahoma.
Looking for a "liberal" neighborhood in Oklahoma doesn't apply anymore, anymore than looking for a "conservative" neighborhood in San Francisco. Okay, so if you are a Republican you probably don't stand a chance of getting elected dog catcher in this state, but if you are a democrat you probably don't have a chance of being elected to the House of Representatives in Congress. Go figure. It probably has something to do with religion. Personally, I can't remember the last time a liberal or conservative did anything worth a d**n in Washington.
But, no place in the US is what it used to be. Only the most die-hard pioneer type in the mountains of Alaska doesn't have satellite television or Internet access. You can get access to the New York Times, the London Times, Le Monde, or Pravda in Oklahoma just as quickly as you can in New York or Los Angeles.
The only major, and important, difference between living in Manhattan and Oklahoma City (or some other burg) is that in Oklahoma you have a chance to live an acre away from your neighbor, whereas in NYC you must put up with listening to your neighbor brush his or her teeth.
Okay, if you want to go to a Broadway play and live in OKC you will have to sit on an airplane for a couple hours, and stay in an expensive hotel with fresh soap and thick towels, but if you live in NYC and want to go and see the same play you will have to go home to your cockroach-infested micro-flat that cost you $500,000 for a single room, and the towels may be dirty because every time you take the elevator down to the basement with your laundry you discover that several of the washing machines aren't working and the ones that do work are full, with laundry bags lined up. Get used to it....
Personally, I prefer the 5-acre estate at $500,000 to the studio apartment in Manhatten, San Francisco, or Seattle (also at $500,000), and I prefer spending the travel time to the theater on a jet than on the subway.
That's just me, however, and everyone has a different take on these things.
The fundamental question, however, of whether liberal or conservative, let's be honest. That doesn't affect (except in 1970s Southern California) how you buy your lettuce or oranges (which come from Peru, Chile, and Mexico, anyway), nor does it affect how you watch TV in the evening, or whether you pop a frozen food into your oven in the evening. Whether you think Darwin was correct or want to take a literal interpretation of the Bible should not affect how you change lanes in traffic or what you buy at Sam's Club.
Whether you are liberal or conservative doesn't really affect how you cook your meatballs and pasta. Some liberals floss daily, as do some conservatives. Liberals and conservatives both max out their credit cards, and both watch brain-dead television shows. Both try to cheat the government. All hate the war in Iraq and blame the other side for the failure of G. Bush.
What this country needs is fewer people identifying themselves as "liberal" or "conservative" and more people willing to sit out on the front porch and churn some ice cream with their neighbors. We would all be better off and much happier....
As far as the "liberals" and "conservatives", a curse on both your houses. You are all bringing this nation to ruin.
As a couple who are right of the center and by the way, free thinkers even if Magnulus seems to think only liberals can be free thinkers, we are very interested in the overall political make up of Ok and Ar. We have lived all over the United States and visited many countries. We took a semi retirement about 6 years ago to get out of the humidity of Texas. Well, here we are, family all in Tx, OK and AR, and we are all alone. We have decided to live with the awful weather to enjoy our kids, grandkids and now a great grandkid. The things we are looking at, politics (we live a very liberal state now) cost of living, taxes and proximity to the things we enjoy. That is why I joined this board: I want to get overall opinions. We are consentrating on Muskogee, Ft Smith and Hots Springs Village right now. My dad and aunt were born in OK, so if we settle there I will feel like I am coming home.
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Libertarians vs. Liberals: A bit of clarification.
love this thread
