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Thank you all for weighing in. Serious Conversation, you and I have messaged before regarding TN. Your insight was hugely helpful as I started researching TN. I always welcome your input.
eddie gein...great screen name
A little more background regarding the question in my initial post:
This year at age 54 I can retire without penalty. Although the longer I go the more financially beneficial it will be for me, I'm anxious to move. I very much want to be wrapped up and done with work by the end of 2023. I am currently on the east coast of central Florida. Although heat & humidity are relative (pun intended ) I long for a place where the summer months are not as brutal and do not last as long as what I've grown to detest over my 34 years in Florida. On the other side of the coin, I grew up in New England and I have no desire to see snow again. Any snow that falls in TN or OK I cannot imagine being the inconvenience that it is in New England. From my brief experience in TN when visiting, the snow and ice doesn't stick around long. To sum up the climate I'm looking for, I'd say I want summers not as bad as Florida and winters not anywhere close to New England.
I started looking at retirement locations about 6 years ago. I was drawn to TN for several reasons. At that time, 6% lower COL compared to Florida. That will help my retirement money go further. Other than occasional tornadoes, it doesn't seem that TN has to deal with too much in the way of severe weather. Certainly not any hurricanes. I also enjoy the flora and geography of TN. Florida, as flat as it is, is boring. I understand the majority of Oklahoma is just about as flat as Florida. That's a detractor to me compared to TN, but not a deal breaker. In Florida, for the most part, any land that is not swamp, or has not been mechanically cleared, is impassible Brazilian Pepper Trees or palmettos. It is rare to find areas in Florida, that are not pasture or have not been cleared, to conveniently walk through. Certainly no hardwood forest areas. That changes a little bit as one gets up into north Florida, but still a lot of truth to the statement.
I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything they don't already know when I say the real estate market has exploded in TN since I first started looking 6 years ago. It has done the same in Florida, too, as well as many other areas, but I don't care about Florida real estate. My goal has been upon retirement to move to a rural area. I want seclusion. When I am home I want to feel like I am the only person on God's green earth. For that to happen I see it requiring wooded acreage to obscure my view of any adjacent property and the roadway. I also want to be able to walk through that acreage. Good luck finding that kind of setting in Florida. Although most of Oklahoma is prairie, I'm reading that east Oklahoma is hills with forests. True?
Although a Walmart or such within 45 minutes or less and a Dollar Store within about 15 minutes would be much appreciated, I don't mind driving for things. I don't care about entertainment such as restaurants or movie theaters. My medical needs are minimal, so I'm not really concerned about proximity to advanced healthcare.
I do recall a chat with Serious Conversation about that issue with regard to some areas in TN. He made the comment "healthcare isn't an issue until it is." I know that's true. I'm probably spoiled by having multiple trauma centers, cancer centers, cardiac centers, stroke specialists and responsive highly trained EMS providers surrounding me in close proximity, but I'm not going to plan my move based upon availability of rapid access to specialists.
In addition to the reasons mentioned about LCOL overall and housing prices in particular several years ago compared to Florida, the climate, geography and flora is what drew me to looking to Tennessee for future retirement. The fact that TN is a day's drive for me from FL also made it attractive to take several scouting trips over these past years to check out different areas. I mentioned the Tri-Cities area of TN because I figured it is an area of TN most are likely to be familiar with. Although during my initial online research I was thinking the Tri-Cities area was where I wanted to go, I was not impressed. On subsequent scouting trips to Tennessee I found myself much more liking the areas on and around the Cumberland Plateau, actually preferring Crossville over Cookevielle. I liked the quiet rural areas of Spencer, Sparta, Deer Lodge, Sunbright and Rogersville. I certainly wouldn't rule out Unicoi County nor Oneida up by the northern border, although the town of Oneida gave the appearance of being very depressed.
The only thing keeping me from continuing to focus on those areas is the change in the housing market. It seems everyone is standing in line to get to Tennessee. I read a statistic the other day that for every 1 house listing there are 130 prospective buyers! As housing has skyrocketed the COL is not as appealing as it once was. That has had me looking at Arkansas and Oklahoma. At present I am leaning towards eastern Oklahoma, but a lot more research to do with scouting trips to plan. I welcome any constructive feedback listing the pros and cons based upon what I'm looking for.
A long post to say in short that I want my retirement income to be stretched as far as possible and I want to reside in a setting of wooded absolute seclusion in a more often than not comfortable climate. Am I likely to find that in eastern Oklahoma?
Thank you all for weighing in. Serious Conversation, you and I have messaged before regarding TN. Your insight was hugely helpful as I started researching TN. I always welcome your input.
eddie gein...great screen name
A little more background regarding the question in my initial post:
This year at age 54 I can retire without penalty. Although the longer I go the more financially beneficial it will be for me, I'm anxious to move. I very much want to be wrapped up and done with work by the end of 2023. I am currently on the east coast of central Florida. Although heat & humidity are relative (pun intended ) I long for a place where the summer months are not as brutal and do not last as long as what I've grown to detest over my 34 years in Florida. On the other side of the coin, I grew up in New England and I have no desire to see snow again. Any snow that falls in TN or OK I cannot imagine being the inconvenience that it is in New England. From my brief experience in TN when visiting, the snow and ice doesn't stick around long. To sum up the climate I'm looking for, I'd say I want summers not as bad as Florida and winters not anywhere close to New England.
I started looking at retirement locations about 6 years ago. I was drawn to TN for several reasons. At that time, 6% lower COL compared to Florida. That will help my retirement money go further. Other than occasional tornadoes, it doesn't seem that TN has to deal with too much in the way of severe weather. Certainly not any hurricanes. I also enjoy the flora and geography of TN. Florida, as flat as it is, is boring. I understand the majority of Oklahoma is just about as flat as Florida. That's a detractor to me compared to TN, but not a deal breaker. In Florida, for the most part, any land that is not swamp, or has not been mechanically cleared, is impassible Brazilian Pepper Trees or palmettos. It is rare to find areas in Florida, that are not pasture or have not been cleared, to conveniently walk through. Certainly no hardwood forest areas. That changes a little bit as one gets up into north Florida, but still a lot of truth to the statement.
I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything they don't already know when I say the real estate market has exploded in TN since I first started looking 6 years ago. It has done the same in Florida, too, as well as many other areas, but I don't care about Florida real estate. My goal has been upon retirement to move to a rural area. I want seclusion. When I am home I want to feel like I am the only person on God's green earth. For that to happen I see it requiring wooded acreage to obscure my view of any adjacent property and the roadway. I also want to be able to walk through that acreage. Good luck finding that kind of setting in Florida. Although most of Oklahoma is prairie, I'm reading that east Oklahoma is hills with forests. True?
Although a Walmart or such within 45 minutes or less and a Dollar Store within about 15 minutes would be much appreciated, I don't mind driving for things. I don't care about entertainment such as restaurants or movie theaters. My medical needs are minimal, so I'm not really concerned about proximity to advanced healthcare.
I do recall a chat with Serious Conversation about that issue with regard to some areas in TN. He made the comment "healthcare isn't an issue until it is." I know that's true. I'm probably spoiled by having multiple trauma centers, cancer centers, cardiac centers, stroke specialists and responsive highly trained EMS providers surrounding me in close proximity, but I'm not going to plan my move based upon availability of rapid access to specialists.
In addition to the reasons mentioned about LCOL overall and housing prices in particular several years ago compared to Florida, the climate, geography and flora is what drew me to looking to Tennessee for future retirement. The fact that TN is a day's drive for me from FL also made it attractive to take several scouting trips over these past years to check out different areas. I mentioned the Tri-Cities area of TN because I figured it is an area of TN most are likely to be familiar with. Although during my initial online research I was thinking the Tri-Cities area was where I wanted to go, I was not impressed. On subsequent scouting trips to Tennessee I found myself much more liking the areas on and around the Cumberland Plateau, actually preferring Crossville over Cookevielle. I liked the quiet rural areas of Spencer, Sparta, Deer Lodge, Sunbright and Rogersville. I certainly wouldn't rule out Unicoi County nor Oneida up by the northern border, although the town of Oneida gave the appearance of being very depressed.
The only thing keeping me from continuing to focus on those areas is the change in the housing market. It seems everyone is standing in line to get to Tennessee. I read a statistic the other day that for every 1 house listing there are 130 prospective buyers! As housing has skyrocketed the COL is not as appealing as it once was. That has had me looking at Arkansas and Oklahoma. At present I am leaning towards eastern Oklahoma, but a lot more research to do with scouting trips to plan. I welcome any constructive feedback listing the pros and cons based upon what I'm looking for.
A long post to say in short that I want my retirement income to be stretched as far as possible and I want to reside in a setting of wooded absolute seclusion in a more often than not comfortable climate. Am I likely to find that in eastern Oklahoma?
OK, first. I'd bet SE Oklahoma is sunnier than east Tennessee although it is likely the least sunny place in Oklahoma.
Secondly, it is going to be hot and miserable in the summer. But it is probably milder than East Tennessee in the winter simply because it is about a thousand feet lower.
Third, every town of any size in SE OK has a dollar store. Many have two or three. We are thick with Walmarts as well but they are all on those peripheral towns on the edge of the mountains (Poteau, McAlester, Broken Bow and Antlers and Mena, AR.
The wooded, mountainous type terrain that you would likely want is between Heavener, Wilburton, Talihina to Antlers and then over to Broken Bow and on the east side it goes on into Arkansas. You could probably get to a Walmart in 45 minutes to an hour from any part of that area. And in some instances 20-30 minutes.
As far as health care goes. McAlester's hospital is really good for a city it's size. Ft. Smith hospitals are pretty strong as they are also a hub. Idabel, and Poteau have solid community hospitals as do DeQueen and Mena, AR. Tulsa, OKC, Fayetteville AR are not far. If you land on the southern side of the mountains, Hugo, OK, Texarkana, and Paris, TX are available.
If you are looking for solitude and don't need a lot of city style entertainment, SE OK would be wonderful. I did want to say that Krebs, OK (next to McAlester) has some of the most incredible Italian food you will find anywhere. And there are four Italian places that are awesome within a mile of each other.
eddie gein, THANK YOU!
That information on locations that would likely suit what I’m looking for is exactly the kind of feedback that is most helpful.
>When I am home I want to feel like I am the only person on God's green earth. For that to happen I see it >requiring wooded acreage to obscure my view of any adjacent property and the roadway. I also want to >be able to walk through that acreage.
Sounds like one of my relatives' places in deep SE OK! Places like that are to be had in Eastern OK.
>Although most of >Oklahoma is prairie, I'm reading that east Oklahoma is hills with forests. True?
Roughly the eastern third of OK is pretty heavily wooded. I've attached a map from the state forest service. The color coding is for different types of forest, not how thick the forest. Wherever it's colored they consider it a forest. It's not all hills, but there are hilly/rolling areas. Part of NE OK, the yellow area, is actually the west end of the Ozark Plateau. I've attached a terrain map also. In most of Eastern OK, even where it's flat and not officially a forest it's still got enough woods that visually secluded homes are available.
SE OK gets a few inches of snow a year but it melts in a day or two. The average January high temperatures are low 50s. You get a few really cold snaps but they don't last long. (The weather is a lot less stable from day to day in Oklahoma than Florida!) Eddie's right that summers are seriously hot and muggy, mainly July/Aug, but that goes away in September when the cool fronts start coming in.
So, my wife and I are looking to move to either of the places mentioned here (most likely closer to Knoxville than the TC area). My question is that my wife suffers from SAD (seasonal affected disorder) meaning on she suffers when there are many cloudy days in a row. She used to live in Chicago where it is cloudy from November thru May. How does the cloudy winter weather differ in SE Ok, versus ET?
Relative to all the rest of the US, the climate is fairly similar in both areas. SE OK is somewhat sunnier, not a whole lot, on average than ET. SE OK can have several cloudy days in a row in winter, but it is a far cry from the weeks of unrelenting winter gloom you find in the Upper Midwest (I know what she means). Around Chicago and most of TN, the cloudiest months are deep winter. In SE OK, the cloudiest months are spring time but it comes with pleasant spring temperatures, occasional thunderstorms, and longer days than midwinter. Have a look at the attached maps.
>When I am home I want to feel like I am the only person on God's green earth. For that to happen I see it >requiring wooded acreage to obscure my view of any adjacent property and the roadway. I also want to >be able to walk through that acreage.
Sounds like one of my relatives' places in deep SE OK! Places like that are to be had in Eastern OK.
>Although most of >Oklahoma is prairie, I'm reading that east Oklahoma is hills with forests. True?
Roughly the eastern third of OK is pretty heavily wooded. I've attached a map from the state forest service. The color coding is for different types of forest, not how thick the forest. Wherever it's colored they consider it a forest. It's not all hills, but there are hilly/rolling areas. Part of NE OK, the yellow area, is actually the west end of the Ozark Plateau. I've attached a terrain map also. In most of Eastern OK, even where it's flat and not officially a forest it's still got enough woods that visually secluded homes are available.
SE OK gets a few inches of snow a year but it melts in a day or two. The average January high temperatures are low 50s. You get a few really cold snaps but they don't last long. (The weather is a lot less stable from day to day in Oklahoma than Florida!) Eddie's right that summers are seriously hot and muggy, mainly July/Aug, but that goes away in September when the cool fronts start coming in.
The maps are great!! The light green perfectly approximates the pine forest (mixed with hardwoods). They yellow the Ozark plateau which is hardwoods and oak. The darker green is the crosstimbers. Washington Irving named it the "castiron forest" because when he explored it they had to use machetes, saws and hatchets to get through it.
The Crosstimbers are mostly postoak, blackjack oak and other scrubby trees. They are thicker than just about any other kind of forest but the trees or only about 10-20 feet tall and all kinds of nasty underbrush.
My parents live in the part of the cross timbers that encroach on the NE OKC/Edmond area. It's still pretty country but someone from Florida might think it's a bit scraggly. But it is really green and sometimes you get a leave change.
As for the SE Oklahoma region I'd say it most closely approximates northeast Alabama in how it looks and feels.
The mix of hardwoods and pine down there makes for some spectacular fall foliage in most years. We have the Talimena drive which is kind of our mini-version of the Blueridge Parkway. Very beautiful.
Here is a property that has some nice pictures of what it's like in SE OK. Also gives you an idea of price per acre of land. I think this is in the Talihina area which would be an area I would strongly consider if I were going to go down there. Talihina is tiny but it has some amenities and it is close to the heart of the piney mountainous area.
Here is a property that has some nice pictures of what it's like in SE OK. Also gives you an idea of price per acre of land. I think this is in the Talihina area which would be an area I would strongly consider if I were going to go down there. Talihina is tiny but it has some amenities and it is close to the heart of the piney mountainous area.
Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
That looks exactly like the setting I would be seeking. That’s encouraging because I went and looked at current real estate listings for the towns you mentioned in the earlier post. The current listings are discouraging. Not seeing much of anything that fits the bill for what I’m looking for. The pictures of what you just linked me to paint a different story.
It's still pretty country but someone from Florida might think it's a bit scraggly.
What areas in Florida are not pasture, swampland, pepper trees and palmettos is scraggly oaks and scrub brush. Shoot, one of the endangered birds is a Scrub Jay as the scrub is their natural habitat. Here in Florida for the most part either soil is rich in organic matter because of the decaying vegetation in the swamp or the soil is sandy leading to mostly stunted growth of the vegetation that grabs hold.
I'm doing some relocation thinking myself, though not in OK or TN. I use Google Maps street view to get an idea of how some place looks apart from the realty photos. (Not that Eddie's photos are misleading. It is pretty like that down there.)
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) I long for a place where the summer months are not as brutal and do not last as long as what I've grown to detest over my 34 years in Florida. On the other side of the coin, I grew up in New England and I have no desire to see snow again. Any snow that falls in TN or OK I cannot imagine being the inconvenience that it is in New England. From my brief experience in TN when visiting, the snow and ice doesn't stick around long. To sum up the climate I'm looking for, I'd say I want summers not as bad as Florida and winters not anywhere close to New England.
