Who is OH voting for?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Those coming to the US legally aren't in any way impacted by illegal immigration. The process doesn't change either way, so it is neither fair nor unfair to them.
Enforcing immigration laws is not racist in and of itself, but racism clearly plays a role in the perception of illegal immigrants and the methods used against them. The idea, for example, that illegals are largely criminals is completely a lie. Trump, for example, has recently suggested that as many as 3 million needed to leave because of criminal records, and yet only 10% or less of that number actually has one- between 200K-300K. Now, if you said, let's deport those people, I'd agree with you. What about the rest, whose only real crime involved crossing a border without permission? Why can't there be a path for them? Give them fines, require some kind of community or military service, etc., but what purpose is there just to deport them? That seems to be out of little more than belligerent spite or an irrational worry about demographic change.


You're really reaching. Stating benefits of a place is neither excusing its flaws or suggesting some kind of undeserved privilege. Every single thing I mentioned was accessible to nearly everyone. They weren't some kind of special benefits for foreign transplants or the rich. I don't come from wealth, and I am not sure I can even be called middle class even by Mexican standards. Life here can be extremely difficult at times, and I am not immune to that. If it doesn't work out here, there's no trust fund standing by. I would have to start over no matter where I ended up. I am not sure I can even explain to you, though, why living here appeals to me. I think only those who have lived in other countries can really understand that, and even then, probably only those who have lived in countries unlike where they came from. Seeing the world from a vastly different perspective is invaluable. You come away with a far better understanding of yourself and the human condition. I only wish more Americans were open to the experience.

I stopped reading when you stated ''that illegals are largely criminals is completely a lie''. Umm, if they are in the U.S. illegally, thereby having broke the immigration laws, they are criminals. It's call ''illegal conduct''.

Yes, if only everyone could just up and move to another country to see the world from a vastly different perspective...umm, most Americans can't do this even if they are ''open'' to it.

For such humble roots you describe, you can sure come across a bit naïve. Yeah, those that abided by the law to enter the U.S. to become citizens are affected by those here illegally. So insulting. Why don't you try the Middle East if Mexico doesn't work out or maybe return to the U.S. and get a job.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I stopped reading when you stated ''that illegals are largely criminals is completely a lie''. Umm, if they are in the U.S. illegally, thereby having broke the immigration laws, they are criminals. It's call ''illegal conduct''.

Yes, if only everyone could just up and move to another country to see the world from a vastly different perspective...umm, most Americans can't do this even if they are ''open'' to it.

For such humble roots you describe, you can sure come across a bit naïve. Yeah, those that abided by the law to enter the U.S. to become citizens are affected by those here illegally. So insulting. Why don't you try the Middle East if Mexico doesn't work out or maybe return to the U.S. and get a job.

There is a big difference in being a violent criminal and just breaking a law. Almost everyone has broken a law before. That hardly makes them all hardened criminals. Refusing to see context and circumstance is unrealistic. Besides, throughout history, there have been plenty of laws that were unjust, unconstitutional or just plain dumb. Something being legal doesn't automatically make it right anymore than being illegal automatically makes it wrong. I supported gay marriage even when it wasn't legal. I support interracial relationships even though at one time it was illegal. I support the decriminalization of marijuana even though I don't use it.


Americans are the most privileged people in the history of the world collectively. No excuses. If some poor Mexican can manage to cross a border, surely you can. Get your passport and see what's out there. You can still love America and appreciate something else.


I'm not sure what makes what I said naïve, but you're certainly free to that view. And why would I try the Middle East? That's a rather random comment. You almost seem personally offended that I would choose another country over the US.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

There is a big difference in being a violent criminal and just breaking a law. Almost everyone has broken a law before. That hardly makes them all hardened criminals. Refusing to see context and circumstance is unrealistic. Besides, throughout history, there have been plenty of laws that were unjust, unconstitutional or just plain dumb. Something being legal doesn't automatically make it right anymore than being illegal automatically makes it wrong. I supported gay marriage even when it wasn't legal. I support interracial relationships even though at one time it was illegal. I support the decriminalization of marijuana even though I don't use it.


Americans are the most privileged people in the history of the world collectively. No excuses. If some poor Mexican can manage to cross a border, surely you can. Get your passport and see what's out there. You can still love America and appreciate something else.


I'm not sure what makes what I said naïve, but you're certainly free to that view. And why would I try the Middle East? That's a rather random comment. You almost seem personally offended that I would choose another country over the US.

Trust me, not personally offended. Live wherever you want. Surely almost everyone has broken a law before; however, breaking any law as an illegal is sufficient to be deported, with an add on for breaking the immigration laws from the get-go.

You analogy of past dumb laws to illegal immigrants is misplaced.

Americans are international travelers.

[1watertiger]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

If not racism, certainly a moral philosophy that leaves compassion and empathy by the wayside and have been replaced with a spiteful, hateful worldview that seeks to punish those who come from circumstances far worse than most Americans will ever understand. America has abandoned its own founding principles. Your seeming glee that family was deported says a lot. The thing is that the immigration issue could be solved in a reasonable way. No one there seems all that interested in that, though. I have to laugh every time someone says that the US is a Christian nation. No it isn't. Not only because it wasn't founded on religion, but because so much of the native population takes the very opposite view of treating others with the respect, compassion and reason that the religion would demand of its followers.


I don't benefit from anything here that anyone else doesn't have. What exactly are the extra benefits I have?

You claim this country wasnt founded on Christianity. You are wrong.http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...act-vs-fiction
You claim americans are not majority Christian. You are wrong again.Poll: Most Americans Say They're Christian - ABC News

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

You claim this country wasnt founded on Christianity. You are wrong.Is America a Christian Nation? Fact vs. Fiction ? Charisma News
You claim americans are not majority Christian. You are wrong again.Poll: Most Americans Say They're Christian - ABC News

Some of the founders of the country were Christians, but that doesn't mean it was "founded on Christianity". Others were "deists", like Jefferson and Paine, who felt some kinship to the religion but were not practicing Christians themselves. Hence the First Amendment and the fact no national religion was established, specifically because they didn't want another Church of England situation and wanted everyone to practice whatever faith they believed (or didn't believe).

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

You claim this country wasnt founded on Christianity. You are wrong.Is America a Christian Nation? Fact vs. Fiction
You claim americans are not majority Christian. You are wrong again.Poll: Most Americans Say They're Christian - ABC News

It was not founded on Christianity. The US is not a theocratic system. As Natural stated, there is a good reason why there was never an official state religion, something the Founders could've easily done.

And I never said most Americans didn't identify as Christian. I said that many seem to simply pay lip service and don't practice the very fundamentals of their own religion. Or is treating fellow human beings who come from less fortunate circumstances or who are different from you like pariah a Christian principle? Remind me, does Jesus talk about compassion and empathy, or scapegoating and callousness?