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Old 03-15-2024, 11:01 AM
 
427 posts, read 154,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Sounds like equal opportunity abuse for everybody

But this is what you get when people are charged for a human right, if you don't have shelter you cannot survive
4 human rights are air, water, food and shelter
They already charge for water, food and shelter, why not charge to breathe too, like Total Recall
Human rights don't exist. They were something that humans made up, whole cloth, late in our collective history. and are mostly tied to people of European descent, who invented the concept as a natural outcome of their Christian religious beliefs. Muslims, for example, have no concept of "human rights" because Allah is unknowable, and thus the rules of the universe are unpredictable. Orthodox Jews assign different "rights" to those in their tribe vs. those outside of it.

To this topic, I wish these people luck, but just like school districts, the quality cannot be imposed from above, it is a net result of the quality of the people. If they're good, hardworking folks, this will succeed. if they're basically low-IQ layabouts with criminal tendencies and poor parenting skills (my money is on the latter), it'll collapse like every other experiment of letting the inmates run the asylum.
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Old 03-15-2024, 11:05 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 326,824 times
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I’ve lived in 4 different apartments since I moved out about 12 years ago. Every single one was basically market rate rent when we moved in , although 2 were under stabilized contracts and each building was more than adequate. Issues were addressed promptly. The buildings were kept in good shape with some better than others.

What I take away from that is that the buildings which are really crummy are where the majority of tenants are paying far below market rate and there literally is no money to properly maintain the structure. I don’t believe there are many true slumlords running around.

As with everything in NYC, there are many people who want something for nothing. They want to pay for catfish and eat lobster.
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Old 03-15-2024, 11:12 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 326,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmed hour View Post
When we were toddler age that was certainly true. One they were super young (married at 19/20, 19/21 when my sister came along and 20/22 when I was born)

My dad was literally laid off from his union job 2 days before my sister was born back in 1975. He took any work he could get for several years- mover, pumped gas, commercial building cleaning. I was very unexpected for my parents and that just made things worse I’m sure. My mom went to school on weekends when we were school aged and eventually became a teacher for the visually impaired.

NYC was tough for most people back in the 70s and 80 with the economic situation going on both in the city and nationally.
Some people just don’t want to bust their behinds and suffer for years on end to *make it*.
A family members fiancée always cries how hard it will be to buy a house. I told her it took my wife and I 15 long, long years to save up for a significant down payment which is what you need in the NYC metro area. She looked at me and got even more depressed.

For most people that make it it’s a grind. No one sees the blood, sweat, and tears for years on end. The losers always like to point out how unlucky they are. My wife and I were unlucky as well. If we were lucky it would’ve taken us 10 or even maybe 5 years.
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Old 03-15-2024, 11:39 AM
 
8,373 posts, read 4,386,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I agree. This is a case of be careful what you ask for, IMO. Especially in poorer communities as you allude to, building repair expenses can be cost prohibitive. This may very well be a win, but it may be a short-lived one if new building owners have major repairs (or lawsuits) to address and they cannot afford to do so.

That said, I wish the new owners of the building in question toward the end of the video the best of luck. I imagine that they have to set up some kind of owners association, which will mean added monthly maintenance fees, etc.
Correct. There are in fact low priced (typically small) units to buy in NYC; they are not even exceptionally hard to find - but taxes and maintenance per year amount to approximately 8% (every year) of the cost of purchase of the unit PLUS mortgage and major upgrades. Basically, if you buy a cheap unit in NYC, you have to factor in your plans spending the equal amount for maintaining it and paying taxes over the next 10 years, even not counting the mortgage and upgrades.
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Old 03-15-2024, 12:07 PM
 
8,373 posts, read 4,386,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Sounds like equal opportunity abuse for everybody

But this is what you get when people are charged for a human right, if you don't have shelter you cannot survive
4 human rights are air, water, food and shelter
They already charge for water, food and shelter, why not charge to breathe too, like Total Recall
As other poster pointed out, human rights are not natural, but created by humans out of charity. There are cells in human brain that discharge equally whether we sense something ourselves, or see it in another person. Biologically, it seems to be a system for learning, but it also may underlie the higher complexities of human civilization, ie, empathy which leads to charity:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510904/

Air, water, and food (if you want to hunt it, gather it, or grow it) occurs naturally - buildings don't. Someone builds them, someone performs other kind of work in exchange for money to buy a building, and someone maintains them. Therefore you get the right (ie, legal right - there aren't any other rights except legal, since a "right" is entirely a legal concept) to live in a building if you exchange some other work for it, and the medium of that exchange is money, to assure that the exchange is equivalent. You can't buy or barter something for the right to live in a building - but if you have nothing to give back in exchange (to exercise this legal right), then you can live there based only on charity of other people, not on any right.

Land does occur naturally like air/ water/ food, but I think it has all been bought (in exchange for something else) by either some private or some public entity in the US. But a lot of federal land is still empty and not particularly valuable - I think it should be allowed to anyone to build freely their own shelter on that land, since such land is natural, and does not contain anything made by the labor of other people. But such land should still belong to federal government, only the shelter built on it should belong to whoever builds it.
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Old 03-15-2024, 12:08 PM
 
34,082 posts, read 47,278,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
As other poster pointed out, human rights are not natural, but created by humans out of charity. There are cells in human brain that discharge equally whether we sense something ourselves, or see it in another person. Biologically, it seems to be a system for learning, but it also may underlie the higher complexities of human civilization, ie, empathy which leads to charity:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510904/

Air, water, and food (if you want to hunt it, gather it, or grow it) occurs naturally - buildings don't. Someone builds them, someone performs other kind of work in exchange for money to buy a building, and someone maintains them. Therefore you get the right (ie, legal right - there aren't any other rights except legal, since a "right" is entirely a legal concept) to live in a building if you exchange some other work for it, and the medium of that exchange is money, to assure that the exchange is equivalent. If you can't buy or barter something for the right to live in a building - but if you have nothing to give back in exchange (to exercise this legal right), then you can live there based only on charity of other people, not on any right.

Land does occur naturally like air/ water/ food, but I think it has all been bought (in exchange for something else) by either some private or some public entity in the US. But a lot of federal land is still empty and not particularly valuable - I think it should be allowed to anyone to build freely their own shelter on that land, since such land is natural, and does not contain anything made by the labor of other people. But such land should still belong to federal government, only the shelter built on it should belong to whoever builds it.
Let them start charging for air then too
Just like in Total Recall
No worries
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Old 03-15-2024, 12:12 PM
 
8,373 posts, read 4,386,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Let them start charging for air then too
Just like in Total Recall
No worries
I give you a logical analysis, and you give me a quick flippant nonsense. The only worry to me are people like you :-).
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Old 03-15-2024, 12:27 PM
 
34,082 posts, read 47,278,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
I give you a logical analysis, and you give me a quick flippant nonsense. The only worry to me are people like you :-).
Why is air not logical to charge for when water, land and food are? Charge for it all then. Nobody should essentially be allowed to exist on this planet if they are not earning money.
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Old 03-15-2024, 01:35 PM
 
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one has many options when it come to water food and land . they can fish and hunt ….collect rain water ..even filter their own water

but they can’t live without air

history has people bartering for food and land . no one barters for air
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Old 03-15-2024, 01:58 PM
 
34,082 posts, read 47,278,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
one has many options when it come to water food and land . they can fish and hunt ….collect rain water ..even filter their own water

but they can’t live without air

history has people bartering for food and land . no one barters for air
In China, A Breath Of Fresh Air (In A Can)

As long as we keep the environment nice and healthy, we won't have to barter for air
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