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That large housing complex created by the Bloomberg administration is an example. Intended for working class and some middle class types, but the buildings have been in the news for things like garbage issues. Some real ghetto types in there...
Housing stock is important too. Bed Stuy has a lot of brownstones, which helps. The Bronx has a lot of housing projects, Section 8, etc. clustered together, which does not. The good areas do not such as Riverdale, Country Club, Woodlawn, Morris Park, Throggs Neck (east of the expressway), Pelham Gardens, etc., but these areas are tucked out of sight. The worst areas are what most people see in terms of being accessible by subway. Most of the nice areas require taking Metro-North or the expressway, as they are mainly two-fare neighborhoods.
Yea, I agree and think there's a large impact from that as well. I think Section 8 depending on how it's done is a bit different from housing projects which have an immediate visual impact to ward people off and can't contribute street level commercial spaces, and the fact that the part of the Bronx (Mott Haven) that does have the shorter subway commute times to Midtown and downtown have a lot of the large Corbusier-ish massive "towers in a park" housing projects probably stymies the kind of gradual push further and further out you get with Queens and Brooklyn.
I forget if you've mentioned this before, but how do you feel about Kingsbridge? The commute times to Midtown are long because it's local service, but I feel like the general area seems to have been getting a bit of a push pre-pandemic. I was making one of my occasional treks to Liebman just prior to the pandemic, and was doing it from the 1 train and it seemed like things were just a touch nicer than I remembered on the walk over and back in a horsehoe of sorts ending up in Bronx Alehouse. I'm wondering if some of the people associated with Columbia and its expansion are more and more living there.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 05-03-2021 at 10:54 AM..
Mostly affordable units but some market rate going up in the Bronx. The affordable and 'mixed-income' buildings will end up looking like NYCHA in just a few years. Middle-Class people may rent in a mixed-income building until they see what they've gotten themselves into. Mixed-income is designed to become low-income.
The affordable housing is a mixed bag. There are some wild AMI spans that go from 30% or up to 130% which leads to affordable housing that's $1650 a month for a studio apartment in University Heights.
Yea, I agree and think there's a large impact from that as well. I think Section 8 depending on how it's done is a bit different from housing projects which have an immediate visual impact to ward people off and can't contribute street level commercial spaces, and the fact that the part of the Bronx (Mott Haven) that does have the shorter subway commute times to Midtown and downtown have a lot of the large Corbusier-ish massive "towers in a park" housing projects probably stymies the kind of gradual push further and further out you get with Queens and Brooklyn.
I forget if you've mentioned this before, but how do you feel about Kingsbridge? The commute times to Midtown are long because it's local service, but I feel like the general area seems to have been getting a bit of a push pre-pandemic. I was making one of my occasional treks to Liebman just prior to the pandemic, and was doing it from the 1 train and it seemed like things were just a touch nicer than I remembered on the walk over and back in a horsehoe of sorts ending up in Bronx Alehouse. I'm wondering if some of the people associated with Columbia and its expansion are more and more living there.
Kingsbridge, especially the western part, west of Kingsbridge Av, closer to Riverdale is totally fine and very safe. Over the years, it seems that rents have been pushed up considerably, being so close to Riverdale. People who cannot afford Riverdale, including professionals in the medical field have been flocking to Kingsbridge. I am not sure now, but I know some places were going for $1700-1750 for one bedrooms at one point, which is high, given that most of the area is working class and not upper middle to upper class like Riverdale, but for people that own, prices are reasonable there. The subway is local yes, but it's about 25 minutes to 96th St, which is not terrible, and you have the same express buses Riverdale has, but with only one or two stops before the first stop in Manhattan, and Metro-North.
Kingsbridge in some respect reminds me of Inwood west of Broadway... Quiet, more co-ops and homeowners, and not as dense, so rents are higher as a result, as it is family-oriented. Like Riverdale, some families have lived there for decades in their homes, and that keeps the neighborhood stable. It's proximity to Riverdale being just up the hill certainly helps. I don't think it will fall into decline much. That is also why Van Cortlandt Village has remained stable which is next to Kingsbridge, east of Broadway, as it too has more co-ops and owners, compared to most areas of the Bronx, allowing for the area to remain stable.
If you look at the Bronx as a whole, the middle class neighborhoods that we often mention like City Island, Morris Park, Pelham Gardens, Country Club, are generally more low density areas with high ownership rates, so these neighborhoods did not face the decline and high crime that areas like the South Bronx did, which are very dense, poor and consist mainly of housing projects or Section 8. Parts of the Grand Concourse that are stable have a number of co-ops as well, so again those parts have seen a re-birth, as they were able to withstand the periods when the "Bronx was burning".
In the case of Kingsbridge, I suppose having the 50th precinct in the neighborhood helps as well. The only thing I don't like about Kingsbridge is most of the shopping is located under the 1 train, which can be loud and dark. Not appealing to me, but if you can get past that, it's fine, especially living away from Broadway.
Kingsbridge, especially the western part, west of Kingsbridge Av, closer to Riverdale is totally fine and very safe. Over the years, it seems that rents have been pushed up considerably, being so close to Riverdale. People who cannot afford Riverdale, including professionals in the medical field have been flocking to Kingsbridge. I am not sure now, but I know some places were going for $1700-1750 for one bedrooms at one point, which is high, given that most of the area is working class and not upper middle to upper class like Riverdale, but for people that own, prices are reasonable there. The subway is local yes, but it's about 25 minutes to 96th St, which is not terrible, and you have the same express buses Riverdale has, but with only one or two stops before the first stop in Manhattan, and Metro-North.
Kingsbridge in some respect reminds me of Inwood west of Broadway... Quiet, more co-ops and homeowners, and not as dense, so rents are higher as a result, as it is family-oriented. Like Riverdale, some families have lived there for decades in their homes, and that keeps the neighborhood stable. It's proximity to Riverdale being just up the hill certainly helps. I don't think it will fall into decline much. That is also why Van Cortlandt Village has remained stable which is next to Kingsbridge, east of Broadway, as it too has more co-ops and owners, compared to most areas of the Bronx, allowing for the area to remain stable.
If you look at the Bronx as a whole, the middle class neighborhoods that we often mention like City Island, Morris Park, Pelham Gardens, Country Club, are generally more low density areas with high ownership rates, so these neighborhoods did not face the decline and high crime that areas like the South Bronx did, which are very dense, poor and consist mainly of housing projects or Section 8. Parts of the Grand Concourse that are stable have a number of co-ops as well, so again those parts have seen a re-birth, as they were able to withstand the periods when the "Bronx was burning".
In the case of Kingsbridge, I suppose having the 50th precinct in the neighborhood helps as well. The only thing I don't like about Kingsbridge is most of the shopping is located under the 1 train, which can be loud and dark. Not appealing to me, but if you can get past that, it's fine, especially living away from Broadway.
Kingsbridge isn't bad. I agree I hate shopping under the train (similar to parts of Brooklyn, which I also do not like) and I actually tried to look at a few houses there when we were looking to buy. Low inventory west of 87 and into Spuyten. It's also pretty dense---a little too dense for my liking.
I think in the areas you mentioned (City Island, MP, Pelham Gardens, CC) have many people who drive to work anyway. Pelham Bay less so but still. When you go home late on the 5 train toward MP/PG, and I don't even mean that late I mean 10 PM, it's pretty empty after 125th and even emptier after 180th. I don't know what it would take to have more people commuting in (this is referencing the other post, wondering why the area isn't targeted with the easy commute) via train but it's just not the same as heading to Brooklyn. I used to take the train home after 12 AM into Brooklyn regularly and it still had a lot of people on it. I had taken the train home after 4 AM before and I was never alone.
Based on my house hunting experience this month, real estate in the Bronx is on the up and up. Homes that were listed for $450-$550K last year are now selling for well north of $600K. These homes can be listed on Monday and by Friday they have already accepted an offer. Granted, I'm only looking in the desirable areas of The Bronx like Throggs Neck, Woodlawn, Pelham Bay, and Morris Park.
Kingsbridge isn't bad. I agree I hate shopping under the train (similar to parts of Brooklyn, which I also do not like) and I actually tried to look at a few houses there when we were looking to buy. Low inventory west of 87 and into Spuyten. It's also pretty dense---a little too dense for my liking.
I think in the areas you mentioned (City Island, MP, Pelham Gardens, CC) have many people who drive to work anyway. Pelham Bay less so but still. When you go home late on the 5 train toward MP/PG, and I don't even mean that late I mean 10 PM, it's pretty empty after 125th and even emptier after 180th. I don't know what it would take to have more people commuting in (this is referencing the other post, wondering why the area isn't targeted with the easy commute) via train but it's just not the same as heading to Brooklyn. I used to take the train home after 12 AM into Brooklyn regularly and it still had a lot of people on it. I had taken the train home after 4 AM before and I was never alone.
The 5 train runs very poorly and goes through some not so savory areas, that's the reason why. I had a colleague that lived in Morris Park. He commuted via the BxM10 express bus. The people in Pelham Gardens that don't drive also take the BxM10. If you live in those middle class areas, most people don't take the subway in the Bronx. They don't want to be bothered with the panhandling and all of that.
In City Island, they either drive to Metro-North up in Pelham or drive to Pelham Bay for the BxM8 express bus. The same thing in Throggs Neck. Most people take the BxM9 express bus. Country Club as well... Express bus. Brooklyn is different in that if say, you live in Bay Ridge and live near the R, then sure they'll take it because safety concerns aren't such an issue. The only subway line in the Bronx that you'll see more of the middle types riding is the 1 train, but even there, most folks in Riverdale take Metro-North and the express buses. People in Woodlawn that I know opt for Metro-North or the express bus. A handful will take the 4 train, but not many.
These middle class Bronx areas tend to be more isolated and suburban in feel, so they often times don't have any subway service to begin with.
When you say dense, are you referring to Kingsbridge or Spuyten Duyvil?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midtown07
Based on my house hunting experience this month, real estate in the Bronx is on the up and up. Homes that were listed for $450-$550K last year are now selling for well north of $600K. These homes can be listed on Monday and by Friday they have already accepted an offer. Granted, I'm only looking in the desirable areas of The Bronx like Throggs Neck, Woodlawn, Pelham Bay, and Morris Park.
Yeah, in Pelham Gardens, houses go easily for over a million. Beautiful homes on big lots from the 1900s. Morris Park will always be in high demand since you have Albert Einstein and Montefiore there, and you will have the doctors, RNs, etc. looking to purchase. Woodlawn tends to be very word of mouth, so there isn't much inventory to begin with, and when comes on the market, it goes quickly.
The Bronx has a lot of pretty and safe neighborhoods. Look up Van Courtlant, Pelham Parkway, Co-op City, Eastchester, Baychester, Morris Park, Fordham Heights.
.. these neighborhoods don't look the same... it's ignorant to say the whole thing is bad....however the West and South Bronx were the places with more fun, swag and excitement . Also in the 80s, there were no Mexicans or Africans in large numbers in NY, but instead Puerto Ricans, African Americans/ West Indians, and Italians on the other side
The Bronx has a lot of pretty and safe neighborhoods. Look up Van Courtlant, Pelham Parkway, Co-op City, Eastchester, Baychester, Morris Park, Fordham Heights.
.. these neighborhoods don't look the same... it's ignorant to say the whole thing is bad....however the West and South Bronx were the places with more fun, swag and excitement . Also in the 80s, there were no Mexicans or Africans in large numbers in NY, but instead Puerto Ricans, African Americans/ West Indians, and Italians on the other side
Are you sure about Fordham Heights in the context of the other neighborhoods you mentioned? I don't mind going there and it has a lot of architectural gems, but I don't think it's generally considered as safe as the other neighborhoods mentioned.
I like it fine enough though and there are some interesting things there. Also like Bedford Park, Norwood, and Parkchester though I don't quite put those in the same tier in regards to safety as some of the other places mentioned. I think probably the most conventionally "nice" part of the Bronx is Riverdale / Fieldston.
From my time outside of New York it does seem like the most disrespected Borough. A lot of people I have talked to, especially outside NYC, or who have never really explored the Bronx seem to not comprehend that is larger than most major cities and comprised of vastly different neighborhoods and the dynamics of which have changed over time. Many folks are still stuck on how bad the Bronx looked through movies they saw in the past. I have a few friends who moved up to the Bronx, and from the pics I see it does not look bad, or least the parts they live at. I do remember in 2005 when my sister was dating a guy from the Bronx who just shook his head and said "there is no economic development in the Bronx." Then again that is just one person and that was back in 2005!!
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