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At least the benefits were worth it. I truly think the Big Dig was the sole reason Boston became a world class city. It spurred over $150 Billion Dollars of development so far including the entire Seaport District, Fort Point Developments, Developments along Atlantic Ave, Developments in/around North Station, Cambridge Crossing and GalleriaSide District.
yea and that is why I asked. Seems like they are starting small parts but have not been given funding for the main part. So we can end up with things like those unused subway stations in NYC
yea and that is why I asked. Seems like they are starting small parts but have not been given funding for the main part. So we can end up with things like those unused subway stations in NYC
Federal government isn't picking up entire tab for this product. As per usual for infrastructure projects things are planned and funded in stages.
First and foremost neither NJ, NY or Amtrak has tens of billions lying about spare right now to dedicate towards this project. How much more federal dollars Gateway Tunnel project will receive will depend upon future presidential administrations and Congress.
Even if Biden wins in 2024 that only gives another four years to see further federal funding. Even that could be messed with if say a Congress (in particular the House) is controlled by Republicans who never miss a beat to hate on NY, NJ and Amtrak.
yea and that is why I asked. Seems like they are starting small parts but have not been given funding for the main part. So we can end up with things like those unused subway stations in NYC
This is different. Those aged and damaged tunnels currently under North River are well past their useful life and were damaged by hurricane Sandy. One more powerful storm or some other trigger could see major damage or even partial collapse. That would cut off Amtrak and NJT trains from NYC and points further east which would be an economic disaster.
Only other way to get from NJ to NY and points east such as MA is upstate using former New York Central (now Amtrak and IIRC CSX ROW).
There was the Poughkeepsie Railroad Bridge, but it long ceased being used by rail and eventually turned into a trail.
It's well worth remembering why PRR built those tunnels under North River in first place; to link Manhattan/NYC to mainland USA (New Jersey).
At the time only PRR trains ran through to Penn Station then onto Queens (Sunnyside yards). But Penn-Central merger that saddled PC with New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad meant trains that could go up and down east coast along Penn-Central's ROW. Amtrak inherited that ROW so there you are.
It may not be your cup of tea, but quite a large number of persons rely upon NJT and Amtrak to get from Washington, D.C. up through and along what is now called "Northeast Rail Corridor". As such those tunnels must be replaced.
Has nothing to do with whether or not anyone wants to go to NYC who doesn't go now. Right now, today, we know a certain volume of train traffic exists that uses train tunnels built over 100 years ago that are in danger of failing.
Look at the plan. Do you understand why the first section of the new tunnel begins near the existing Bergen Tunnel but runs through the Palisades 4 miles down to Hoboken instead of being built adjacent to the existing tunnels?
It's because the existing tunnels are too fragile to withstand the vibrations from the boring machine. That's a little scary. I took a train into NY Penn with a coworker who was on the original ARC project. He says a prayer and holds his breath whenever he is in the existing tunnels, because he knows how bad they are.
If the existing tunnels are that dangerous why not shut them down??????
Incomprehensible safety is not a concern, if prayers are required for safe passage.
Still, the cost estimate and time to complete is a bait and switch and no one ever loses their job and no politician ever mentions the probable cost overruns. At least a range should be given.
I'm sure the big dig and CA light rail had some existential rationale attached to sell the project.
And yes, costs are likely to rise as in any construction project, especially highway construction. But this is an essential project as NYC region only has two crumbling tunnels that are more than 100 year old connecting it to the US continent. Tis situation show the pathetic state of US infrastructure.
Yeah, OK, let's just build highways everywhere and rot in bumper to bumper traffic. Let's die in traffic accidents, make pollution worth, etc...
Maybe you like to be in your house in the boonies 24/7 but thousand of people travel to Manhattan for work and leisure. Whether you like it or not, Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn are the core of NYC tri state area, offering numerous opportunities for business and leisure. And it absolutely outrageous and dangerous that there are only two crumbling train tunnels connecting NYC to the rest of the US. The tunnels that were built with steam excavators using cut and cover method, making a huge ditch through Manhattan.
And Big Dig in Boston transformed the city, gave it a lot extra space and greenery. It was a great project for Boston although it should've included public transportation improvements.
Predicted an existential threat would accompany the rationale for the tunnel.
NYC is a ghost town considering the 'boonies' are flooded with NYC refugees paying over half a mill for 200K$ houses along with a flood of sun blocking condos and apartments flush with NY residents escaping the former big apple. Work at home is the new normal.
Choices determine the quality of life, don;t want to sit in traffic find a job elsewhere vs ripping taxpayers and enriching the political class and their financial supporters.
On one hand, if a new tunnel is really needed, I'd be fine with it. The stick in the mud is the accompanying fraud, graft and waste, which the powers that be happily tolerate.
Precedent has been set, and a jaundiced eye is a requirement when viewing any infrastructure project.
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