Bundy versus the BLM (taxes, land, money)

[Rakin]

Originally Posted by phonelady61

The best thing Nevada can do is vote Harry Reid out of office .

He just declared Bundy to be a Domestic Terrorist. Doesn't seem like a terrorist to me.

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by Rakin

He just declared Bundy to be a Domestic Terrorist. Doesn't seem like a terrorist to me.

Anyone who brings out a large set of gunmen meets that criteria. bundy is there.

[sargentodiaz]

Could this be a case of American sick and tired of the federal government's consistent power grabs and efforts to control every phase of our lives?

Have so many forgotten this:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The biggest stupidity of Bundy was trying to defend himself in court against the federal government!

Now, that a very large body of ARMED Americans assert their rights to protest against government actions, the left is going nuts to find every reason possible to put a stop to it. This is the very reason so many are adamant about their 2nd Amendment rights to own and bear arms. To reign in a government run amok!!!

[Alaskan_Adventurer]

Wow, JanGG. You must think the US is headed in the right direction, which is sad. Open your eyes!

Your rights are getting stripped from under you, and you are completely oblivious. The federal government is NOT supposed to OWN 84.5% of a states land, but only a small amount that is required to do its original very limited duties, as stated in the Constitution of the United States.

Do you know how much land of the United States is owned by the Federal Government? It’s absolutely shocking:

Nevada : 84.5%
Alaska: 69.1%
Utah: 57.4%
Oregon: 53.1%
Idaho: 50.2%
Arizona: 48.1%
California: 45.3%
Wyoming: 42.3%
New Mexico: 41.8%
Colorado: 36.6%

Go back to watching Fox news, and leading your bubbled life.

This entire situation has nothing to do with whether Bundy was right or wrong, it was how our government handled it. Why the heck did the supposed non-militaristic BLM arrive on Bundy's doorstep prepared for war using military-style weapons while establishing a no-fly zone?

And no, the BLM would have most likely gotten slaughtered in that situation if shots had been fired. They knew that, and was forced to leave. The militia outnumbered the BLM 3-5 to 1 and were POed enough to fire back and besides many lives lost on both sides, this would have escalated towards a direction none of us should want, a potential blood-soaked revolution.

[Alaskan_Adventurer]

Originally Posted by lvoc

Anyone who brings out a large set of gunmen meets that criteria. bundy is there.

Kind of an ironic statement, considering it was the BLM who originally arrived "bringing a large set of gunmen".
This is the Bureau of Land Management, not the CIA. They are not supposed to be armed to the teeth!

Pot...kettle?

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by Alaskan_Adventurer

Kind of an ironic statement, considering it was the BLM who originally arrived "bringing a large set of gunmen".
This is the Bureau of Land Management, not the CIA. They are not supposed to be armed to the teeth!

Pot...kettle?

That is a really weird view.

They are cops. Enforce the law and as such are armed as is US custom.

You one of those people who want unarmed cops?

[Alaskan_Adventurer]

Generally, the BLM are not cops, though yes, they do have a law enforcement division on federal lands. To have two hundred of them surround a ranchers house over cattle is excessive, and a horrible use of our tax money. I bet they spent way more than the supposed 1 million that Bundy owes with that fiasco.

No, I don't believe in disarming cops, or ANYONE for that matter. Guns are simply a tool and it is humans that wield it, responsibly or otherwise. I do believe in our Constitution, which is unfortunately being shredded over time.

Yes, I miss South America. I spent three years in Ecuador and Peru and will be back soon. I see you live in Brazil.

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by Alaskan_Adventurer

Generally, the BLM are not cops, though yes, they do have a law enforcement division on federal lands. To have two hundred of them surround a ranchers house over cattle is excessive, and a horrible use of our tax money. I bet they spent way more than the supposed 1 million that Bundy owes with that fiasco.

No, I don't believe in disarming cops, or ANYONE for that matter. Guns are simply a tool and it is humans that wield it, responsibly or otherwise. I do believe in our Constitution, which is unfortunately being shredded over time.

Yes, I miss South America. I spent three years in Ecuador and Peru and will be back soon. I see you live in Brazil.

Sorry lvoc lives in Las Vegas.Roughly 40 miles from the Bundy's.

Events would indicate that the BLM was understaffed...not overstaffed. They were certainly under planned and under managed. No one was surrounding the Bundy home. The action was well away from there.

So you agree that using appropriate police force is the correct thing. Then why did you open your mouth?

[jamies]

I think what bothers a lot of people is not the legalities of Bundies situation, but of the excessively heavy handed way a pseudo police agency handled it. Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge. Two other situations that blew way out of reasonable control.

Everyone was just lucky that nobody accidentally dropped their finger onto a trigger. Both sides were pointing rifles at each other, that is just plain stupid and unnecessary.

BTW - I am a firearm instructor - so I'm about a pro-gun as we come. But this was not the time or place to start a war on "Lexington Green" as some commentator called it. What this has done is reinforce the opinions of many that people with guns are unstable. Did you get a load of the militia guy with the ZZ-Top beard and his assault rifle? I mean pleeeeze. If you are going to have a "militia," then look professional, act professional, have a command structure - what I saw on TV appeared to be a bunch of rabble from off the farm with pricey gun toys.

The cowboys on their horses at least looked like solid Americans, and I noticed they (mostly) weren't armed.

And the BLM - what do they need with SWAT and attack dogs? What do they need to be in camo looking like Special Forces on a mission in Afghanistan?

I wonder how much money has been wasted on this.

This could have been handled a lot differently without the BLM picking a fight. Bundy is out of line too, this whole thing should have remained in litigation and a reasonable solution found. Wiping out a man's life and livelihood is not acceptable to a lot of people, they need to work out a reasonable solution.

PS: If we were all vegetarians none of this wouldda happened!

[Inattentive]

Bundy is wrong he has broken the law period! All the flag waving and huffing and puffing by the local is a overreaction as is the government enforcement of a legitimate court order. Bundy is being subjected to an ridiculous accumulated fine for grazing on government land that has zero worth to the government . My take STOP the hysteria on the part of those USING the" I'am an American on a whipping post" ...please! And as for the government enforce the law on Bundy a millionaire to appear in court and shut the man up ,collect a reasonable fine and charge a fee for service to graze his cattle then GO HOME!!! Play by the rules Bundy we do!