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Thanks for the support. I am neither anglophone or francophone, so I guess I have an unbiased view. I have heard tons of stories about Americans complaining that the French are "arrogant" because they refuse to speak English with them. How laughable is that. Before you go to France, you should at least learn how to greet in French as a courtesy. How to ask about price, time, directions, etc. It is NOT hard. Instead, they simply ASSUME their own native language SHOULD be spoken all over the world, otherwise, those who don't speak it are either uneducated or arrogant. In the end, who is really arrogant? I didn't come to Canada assuming everyone speaks my language, instead, I learn English really hard to become fluent. Why can't they do the same?
I very much respect the francophones's efforts to preserve their language and culture, and I applaud the Quebecois for using "stationment" instead of parking, "courriel electronique" instead of "email". And I like the fact that street signs etc in Quebec are only in French. It is not like the world should circle around the English speaking people. Please keep refusing speak English until they realize it is not enough just to speak English in this world. I mean, do you realize and appreciate how much efforts non-English speaking people have made in learning their language when making fun of their accent and grammar? I have taken French lessons a few years ago, and most Americans speak French with such a horrible English accent and no more than 20% can pronounce "r". They simply go ahead to pronounce their own R instead.
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Originally Posted by Antoyne_42
Very very well said. I agree with you totally.
It is sometimes insulting that english speaking people assumes that everyone speaks perfect english. Also insulting is when they make fun of someone who struggles in english while these same people are on the soil of a people who's native language isn't english.
I, as a french speaking person, have my moments where i don't feel like answering in english to someone who unpolitely asked me a question in english without even using one simple ''bonjour'' or ''merci'' and assuming that i was in his backyard !!!
Other times, when tired, i don't understand english as well therefor i may ask politely the person to repeat the question and if i feel the person is bothered by me non understanding entirely then my attitude may change.
The Montreal train station is a place where the english language is predominant. Even I, sometimes, have a hard time being answered in french, especially when taking the Amtrak train to NYC. Therefor i would be very surprised to have someone (a worker) not being able to speak english, refusing to give a good service to you because you are black or simply ignoring you.
One guy may have a hard day and give bad service to everyone, that happens. But to only one person because he is black and speak english, at the train station ? Sorry, i don't buy that !!!
As a matter of fact my friend, who's coming to town as of today, is black and from Maryland. She comes in 4 to 5 times a year and just loves it here. Just never ever expriences any racial discrimination because of her colour or her native language. Quite the opposite, She actually says.
She sometimes feels she is getting a better treatment.
To be honest i will add that she is very good looking, she is very sweet and she always say ''bonjour'' or some french word like that. How can one resist to that !!!
At least give me the benefit of the doubt that it actually took place! Sounds like someone else is trying to deny the truth of the matter!
the matter of the story is very plain and simple and I'm sure that many others could relate to the situation I was in. I can take you to the very specific train station that it was at and yes! That was my very outrage that someone could do such a thing at a publicly owned facility, that's why I called through and made a complaint, duh!
At least give me the benefit of the doubt that it actually took place! Sounds like someone else is trying to deny the truth of the matter!
the matter of the story is very plain and simple and I'm sure that many others could relate to the situation I was in. I can take you to the very specific train station that it was at and yes! That was my very outrage that someone could do such a thing at a publicly owned facility, that's why I called through and made a complaint, duh!
If this was the main train station for intercity trains known as Central Station (Gare Centrale) and it was someone whose job it was to deal with the public (you mentioned "the station guy" so it wasn't just some guy sweeping the floor), then this is virtually impossible.
As others have said, the Central Station in Montreal is a federal operation and offers rigorously bilingual services. As others have said, English is often the default language there in spite of the fact that Montreal is a mainly French-speaking city.
There are jerks everywhere in the world, but though I don't live in Montreal I have been there many hundreds of times and will stand by its record any day on bilingual services in French and English to visitors.
Not many places in the world can hold a candle to Montreal in this respect. And I have been all over the world.
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Originally Posted by kkgg7
While some may hate the fact that many francophones refuse to speak English, it is also funny to me that almost all anglophones just assume the world should speak English just to communicate with them. May I remind you guys that in Quebec French is the SOLE official language? Therefore, you shouldn't assume people should have any knowledge in English in the first place. Quebecois don't have the responsibility to understand or speak English. On the other hand, it is your responsibility to learn the local language before deciding to travel there, right? Sometimes this language chavanism is so appalling to such an extent that anglophones whine about Italian people don't speak good English. I mean, Italians in Italy. Just because English is the most widely spoken language doesn't mean everyone in the world should love to speak it so that anglophones don't have to learn any foreign languages. So if you go to France and found people refuse to speak English, stop whining and take some lessons. The French didn't expect everyone in Canada or the US to speak French, did they?
I think, English speakers should stop assuming it is the world's responsibility to speak English. They may not be able to or they simply don't want to. I'd hate to see everyone in France or Italy or Japan speaks fluent English.
Then why is French also the official language in the other provinces? English should also be made an official language in Quebec, since Canada is an English speaking country after all.
Then why is French also the official language in the other provinces? English should also be made an official language in Quebec, since Canada is an English speaking country after all.
Might be good to actually know what you're talking about before making grand pronouncements on how another country should conduct its business.
French is not an official language in most other provinces.
Canada is not strictly an English speaking country.
Canada, at a federal government level, is a bilingual country. This means the federal government offers services in both official languages to one degree or another.
At the provincial level, New Brunswick is officially bilingual. Other provinces operate officially in English.
Then why is French also the official language in the other provinces? English should also be made an official language in Quebec, since Canada is an English speaking country after all.
Likewise, if you go to predominantly french speaking parts of the city, anglos will expect to be served in french first. You dont change a multicultural city like Montreal overnight, we have been a two-headed hydra since 1760...
I very much respect the francophones's efforts to preserve their language and culture, and I applaud the Quebecois for using "stationment" instead of parking, "courriel electronique" instead of "email". And I like the fact that street signs etc in Quebec are only in French. It is not like the world should circle around the English speaking people. Please keep refusing speak English until they realize it is not enough just to speak English in this world. I mean, do you realize and appreciate how much efforts non-English speaking people have made in learning their language when making fun of their accent and grammar? I have taken French lessons a few years ago, and most Americans speak French with such a horrible English accent and no more than 20% can pronounce "r". They simply go ahead to pronounce their own R instead.
You may be proud what the French are doing, but it is exactly what builds a wall between them and the rest of North America. Let's look at this from an English speaker's perspective now. (I'm not even a native English speaker, I'm a immigrant from Eastern Europe fyi)
A lot of English have no need to come to Montreal outside of vacationing. Why would they if they have a choice of all of N.America with cities having better weather, lower taxes, no corruption and adequate infrastructure.
North Americans come to Montreal for school in McGill or Concordia or because they stumbled upon a job offer here. It's also a proven fact that these same group of people leave after finishing up and settle elsewhere.
This phenomenon creates the language situation you are describing, keeping the city stagnant.
You may be proud what the French are doing, but it is exactly what builds a wall between them and the rest of North America. Let's look at this from an English speaker's perspective now. (I'm not even a native English speaker, I'm a immigrant from Eastern Europe fyi)
There's only a wall if you can't speak French. I'm an English-speaker from Minnesota, but I also speak (Canadian) French, so that wall doesn't exist for me. I believe every English school in Canada and the U.S. teaches French, so anyone who wants to connect with Quebec can do so by learning French. You can even send your child to a French-speaking immersion school here in Minnesota if you wish. Plus, Montreal is 25% English-speaking. You can do whatever you want in English, if you are really desperate enough to do so.
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A lot of English have no need to come to Montreal outside of vacationing. Why would they if they have a choice of all of N.America with cities having better weather, lower taxes, no corruption and adequate infrastructure.
I'm seriously considering moving to Quebec someday. Not Montreal, but maybe Quebec City, Rimouski, Three Rivers (Trois-Rivières in French), Sherbrooke or one of the smaller towns around those cities. I like Quebec's culture, progressiveness, atmosphere, climate and yes, its Frenchness. For me, the only drawback of living in Quebec (other than being further away from family and friends) would be living in a heavily forested environment -- I'm from the Midwest, and I love the serenity of the open prairie.
Better weather? Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think Sunbelt cities like Houston, Dallas, Miami or Jacksonville with 9 months of 30+ degree C heat and humidity have "good weather." That weather is miserable. I'll take Canada's four seasons over that any day. Also, many Canadians seem to think all of the U.S. is warmer than Canada, which is not true. Minneapolis, for example, has colder winters than Montreal, Toronto, Quebec City, Calgary, Vancouver or pretty much any Canadian city except Winnipeg.
I appreciate the high taxes, because it also means the social services are top-notch. You can live in Alberta or South Dakota and pay no income taxes, but there's much less of a social safety net in those places than in Quebec or a U.S. state like Massachusetts or Vermont.
As for corruption -- have you ever been to Chicago? Or Detroit? Or pretty much any major American city? Montreal's corruption is nothing by comparison.
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North Americans come to Montreal for school in McGill or Concordia or because they stumbled upon a job offer here. It's also a proven fact that these same group of people leave after finishing up and settle elsewhere.
There are plenty of (non-Quebec) North Americans who move to Montreal and Greater Quebec. The reverse is also true -- I've seen Quebecers in places like Georgia, Florida, Ohio and Michigan.
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