MN "least tax-friendly State" in America (new report) (Dayton: neighborhood, income)

[Pilot1]

Originally Posted by my54ford

Unfortunately it won't happen. The Metro's and the Arrow Head have a strangle hold on the rest of the State.....The best we can hope for is to keep one or both the Houses. Keeping Power divided which is the same a power controlled.

I won't get any more political, but that is happening in every state in the country. Suburbs are now BLUE along with the cities. Those metro areas are controlling entire states now. MN has always confused me for being a Democrat stronghold, but I think you and others have shed some light on why.

[Kavalier]

Light rail driving in the same direction as a dozen city buses with one person on each city bus; 5 DMV cars, all idling on the side of the freeway with one person in each car; fifty school buses in a two mile radius, wasting gas, driving children to and fro to schools that are within a mile of their houses.


There is so much flagrant government waste, it's sickening.



Meanwhile, in my neighborhood, if I so much as think about putting a Trump sign on my car or in my lawn, I have legitimate fear of said car or house being burned to the ground.

[Thedosius]

Originally Posted by Kavalier

Light rail driving in the same direction as a dozen city buses with one person on each city bus; 5 DMV cars, all idling on the side of the freeway with one person in each car; fifty school buses in a two mile radius, wasting gas, driving children to and fro to schools that are within a mile of their houses.


There is so much flagrant government waste, it's sickening.



Meanwhile, in my neighborhood, if I so much as think about putting a Trump sign on my car or in my lawn, I have legitimate fear of said car or house being burned to the ground.

^ Not one actual fact ^

Quite unsurprising, truth be told.

[Kavalier]

The MTC hasn't functioned in the "black" for probably 50 years. So what do we do?...bilk the taxpayers out of billions of dollars on a redundant lightrail sham that is one of the most grotesque wastes of taxpayer dollars that this State has ever been worked out of.


The DMV - You wanna bet that their fleet of vehicles and expenses are misused and abused? And kids can't walk a half mile to and from school? And you wonder why there is an obesity epidemic among the youth in this country today...

[Thedosius]

Originally Posted by Kavalier

The MTC hasn't functioned in the "black" for probably 50 years. So what do we do?...bilk the taxpayers out of billions of dollars on a redundant lightrail sham that is one of the most grotesque wastes of taxpayer dollars that this State has ever been worked out of.


The DMV - You wanna bet that their fleet of vehicles and expenses are misused and abused? And kids can't walk a half mile to and from school? And you wonder why there is an obesity epidemic among the youth in this country today...

^ Not one actual fact ^

Quite unsurprising, truth be told.

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by Thedosius

^ Not one actual fact ^

Quite unsurprising, truth be told.

You're incorrect.
If you drill down through the Met Coulcil Budget you will find he's right...

https://metrocouncil.org/Publication...urces-NEW.aspx

Metro Transit currently receives the majority of its funding from the State Motor Vehicle Sales Tax, the State General Fund, fares and federal revenues. Metro Transit prepares an annual calendar budget, but most of its subsidy comes from state funds, on a July 1 biennial budget. Between 2001 and 2006, reductions in state general funds and state motor vehicle sales tax collections forced a set of service cuts, fare increases and fuel surcharges, all of which reduced ridership.

Local policy requires that one third of the system’s funding is to come from fares and current operations slightly exceed that level. Effective October 1, 2008, fares on all buses and trains increased by 25 cents.[9] Express routes cost more (on limited-stop portions) and certain eligible individuals (such as riders with disabilities) may ride for $0.75. Many of the fares are more expensive during rush hour periods. For instance, a rush-hour ride on an express bus costs $3, as opposed to $2.25 for non-rush hours.

The system does not make much use of fare zones aside from downtown zones in Minneapolis and St. Paul, where rides only cost $0.50. Fare transfer cards valid for 2.5 hours are available upon payment of fare. Only the Northstar commuter rail line charges fares based on distance. A number of discounted multiple-use transit pass options are available. In early 2007, the system introduced a contactless smart card (the Go-To card) for paying fares.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_...esota)#Funding

[Kavalier]

Originally Posted by my54ford

You're incorrect.
If you drill down through the Met Coulcil Budget you will find he's right...

https://metrocouncil.org/Publication...urces-NEW.aspx

Metro Transit currently receives the majority of its funding from the State Motor Vehicle Sales Tax, the State General Fund, fares and federal revenues. Metro Transit prepares an annual calendar budget, but most of its subsidy comes from state funds, on a July 1 biennial budget. Between 2001 and 2006, reductions in state general funds and state motor vehicle sales tax collections forced a set of service cuts, fare increases and fuel surcharges, all of which reduced ridership.

Local policy requires that one third of the system’s funding is to come from fares and current operations slightly exceed that level. Effective October 1, 2008, fares on all buses and trains increased by 25 cents.[9] Express routes cost more (on limited-stop portions) and certain eligible individuals (such as riders with disabilities) may ride for $0.75. Many of the fares are more expensive during rush hour periods. For instance, a rush-hour ride on an express bus costs $3, as opposed to $2.25 for non-rush hours.

The system does not make much use of fare zones aside from downtown zones in Minneapolis and St. Paul, where rides only cost $0.50. Fare transfer cards valid for 2.5 hours are available upon payment of fare. Only the Northstar commuter rail line charges fares based on distance. A number of discounted multiple-use transit pass options are available. In early 2007, the system introduced a contactless smart card (the Go-To card) for paying fares.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_...esota)#Funding

It's an absolute waste.




https://www.google.com/search?ei=y4r...30.p821bjpGHaY


https://www.wsmv.com/news/empty-and-...5c9eea0a0.html


I see the same stuff every night driving home to St. Paul. City buses with no one on them, or one or two, at most.

[Thedosius]

Originally Posted by my54ford

You're incorrect.
If you drill down through the Met Coulcil Budget you will find he's right...

https://metrocouncil.org/Publication...urces-NEW.aspx

Metro Transit currently receives the majority of its funding from the State Motor Vehicle Sales Tax, the State General Fund, fares and federal revenues. Metro Transit prepares an annual calendar budget, but most of its subsidy comes from state funds, on a July 1 biennial budget. Between 2001 and 2006, reductions in state general funds and state motor vehicle sales tax collections forced a set of service cuts, fare increases and fuel surcharges, all of which reduced ridership.

Local policy requires that one third of the system’s funding is to come from fares and current operations slightly exceed that level. Effective October 1, 2008, fares on all buses and trains increased by 25 cents.[9] Express routes cost more (on limited-stop portions) and certain eligible individuals (such as riders with disabilities) may ride for $0.75. Many of the fares are more expensive during rush hour periods. For instance, a rush-hour ride on an express bus costs $3, as opposed to $2.25 for non-rush hours.

The system does not make much use of fare zones aside from downtown zones in Minneapolis and St. Paul, where rides only cost $0.50. Fare transfer cards valid for 2.5 hours are available upon payment of fare. Only the Northstar commuter rail line charges fares based on distance. A number of discounted multiple-use transit pass options are available. In early 2007, the system introduced a contactless smart card (the Go-To card) for paying fares.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_...esota)#Funding

You're incorrect:

The statement "The MTC hasn't functioned in the "black" for probably 50 years." is in no way proven by your statement. Indeed, it's based on several false premises either out of ignorance or an intention to deceive.

Roads also are not 'in the black'. The gas and tab fees which many people mistakenly believe pay for roads actually only pays for a portion of state and federal roads and highways. Local streets and the remainder of the funding for state and federal roads come from property taxes and general funds at the county, state or federal level.

In short, transit 'pays for itself' through various forms of user fees roughly as much as roads do. For example, you can see for the state of Minnesota in this brief article from anti-tax think tank Tax Foundation, roughly 41% of roads are paid for by tabs/gas taxes-

https://taxfoundation.org/state-road-funding-2017/

So his point was 'true' only if you let a lot of false premises fly and totally skew the picture. No infrastructure 'pays for itself', which I'm assuming you're assuming is the meaning of 'is in the black'. If that is your meaning, then it's a trivial statement that says "like all infrastructure organizations, the MTC doesn't pay for itself". Does MNDOT 'pay for itself' by this definition? No, of course not.

[Kavalier]

If you think the light rail driving in the exact same direction as a bunch of empty MTC buses isn't a redundant flush down a toilet of waste, you're not living in reality.

[LeTraveler]

Originally Posted by Thedosius

Other than better healthcare, higher per capita incomes, higher productivity, better infant mortality rates, higher GDP per capita...what, oh, what do high taxes get us?

Evidently, the right to complain.

Well, everyone's got to pick their poison, so to speak. All of the statistics that you mentioned don't even begin to cover all of the knock-on effects stemming from low taxes and income. Effects that I saw with my own eyes for the past several years.

For me, personally, it's just not worth it for a ~2% less in income tax or other tax. It may be worth it for some in MN; I know people elsewhere who think it is.