Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Minnesota
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-13-2018, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,742,394 times
Reputation: 6745

Advertisements

yep,
Already bought property in South Dakota. Taking my PERA, 457b, 401A, and SS and blowing this popcorn stand......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-13-2018, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Indiana Uplands
26,433 posts, read 46,671,237 times
Reputation: 19591
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
yep,
Already bought property in South Dakota. Taking my PERA, 457b, 401A, and SS and blowing this popcorn stand......
Black Hills region? It seems like more retirees are moving to the western side of South Dakota.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,742,394 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Black Hills region? It seems like more retirees are moving to the western side of South Dakota.
acreage a touch west and north of SF. close enough for the kids to drive, and enough flat grass to set down my tri-pacer....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2018, 04:43 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,264 posts, read 1,489,436 times
Reputation: 12668
Great!

This weeds out the math failures - the ones who can't figure out that net income in a high income/high tax state (like Minnesota) - ie, income minus taxes - is higher than net income in a low income/low tax state.

Seriously. Did people not take any math courses beyond fifth grade? Anyone clueless enough to prefer a state/local tax burden of 8% on a $50,000 income over a state/local tax burden of 10% in a $60,000 income deserves what they get.

Hint: What they'll get is less money.

As an aside, anyone ever notice how the usual dogmatic sturm und drang over taxes is invariably wrong? "It will depress incomes!" Nope, that doesn't happen (see below). "Jobs will flee!" Nope, that doesn't happen, either - Minnesota's unemployment rate is always lower than the national average. "Employers will pack up and leave!" Again, that doesn't happen. There are 19 Fortune 500 companies in Minnesota. That's 9th, even though Minnesota ranks 22nd in population. In other words, we're 2nd per capita (behind another high-tax state, Connecticut). Yes, even though employers in Minnesota have to pay higher than typical taxes and higher-than typical wages to compete for workers in high-wage Minnesota, they still love doing business here.

That's the "Low taxes cure everything!" dogma running up against the cold, hard reality of how the world actually operates. Sadly, some people will just repeat their dogmatic mantra over and over, all the while refusing to actually see if it bears any semblance to the real world.

Notes:

The average income in Minnesota is $70k, well above the national average of $59k.
https://www.kff.org/other/state-indi...2:%22asc%22%7D

Minnesota has the 4th-lowest unemployment rate in the nation.
https://data.bls.gov/map/MapToolServ...ate&seasonal=u

Fortune 500 company data:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nies-by-state/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2018, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Heart of the desert lands
3,976 posts, read 1,997,728 times
Reputation: 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Great!

This weeds out the math failures - the ones who can't figure out that net income in a high income/high tax state (like Minnesota) - ie, income minus taxes - is higher than net income in a low income/low tax state.

Seriously. Did people not take any math courses beyond fifth grade? Anyone clueless enough to prefer a state/local tax burden of 8% on a $50,000 income over a state/local tax burden of 10% in a $60,000 income deserves what they get.

Hint: What they'll get is less money.
You are conflating tax rates with tax revenue. They are related, but not the same thing.
The OP's article is about tax rates.

Where rates and revenue come together is related to the Laffer curve.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2018, 08:05 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,264 posts, read 1,489,436 times
Reputation: 12668
Quote:
Originally Posted by snebarekim View Post
You are conflating tax rates with tax revenue. They are related, but not the same thing.
The OP's article is about tax rates.

Where rates and revenue come together is related to the Laffer curve.


The only relevance of tax rates is the resulting revenue, which is dependent not only on rates but on how much is being taxed.

Think. It's not hard. Minnesota has an average income of $70k (see my previous post for the link). The U.S. average is $59k. The average state tax burden in Minnesota (it varies, of course, with bracket and locality) is a bit over 10%. Let's round it up to 11% just for the discussion's sake.

Q: What's 89% of $70k?
A: $62.3k.

Got that? At a typical bracket, an average Minnesotan is taking home over $3000 more than an average American is earning before state/local taxes are withdrawn.

This isn't hard.

Another reason that Minnesotans pay more taxes is that Minnesota wages are higher on average, and thus more Minnesotans pay taxes in a higher tax bracket, because Minnesota - like every other state - uses a progressive tax system.

You want to pay lower taxes? Flip burgers at McDonald's. You'll have a lower income and be in a nice, low bracket. But you won't be the envy of anyone who can do basic math.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2018, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,742,394 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post


The only relevance of tax rates is the resulting revenue, which is dependent not only on rates but on how much is being taxed.

Think. It's not hard. Minnesota has an average income of $70k (see my previous post for the link). The U.S. average is $59k. The average state tax burden in Minnesota (it varies, of course, with bracket and locality) is a bit over 10%. Let's round it up to 11% just for the discussion's sake.

Q: What's 89% of $70k?
A: $62.3k.

Got that? At a typical bracket, an average Minnesotan is taking home over $3000 more than an average American is earning before state/local taxes are withdrawn.

This isn't hard.

Another reason that Minnesotans pay more taxes is that Minnesota wages are higher on average, and thus more Minnesotans pay taxes in a higher tax bracket, because Minnesota - like every other state - uses a progressive tax system.

You want to pay lower taxes? Flip burgers at McDonald's. You'll have a lower income and be in a nice, low bracket. But you won't be the envy of anyone who can do basic math.
I'm happy to pay my taxes on a high income while I'm still working but no way I paying 100% taxes on income when I'm retired....Just in case you didn't know Minnesota is not tax-friendly toward retirees.
Social Security income is partially taxed.
Withdrawals from retirement accounts are fully taxed.
Wages are taxed at normal rates, and your marginal state tax rate is 7.05%.
Public and private pension income are fully taxed.
Minnesota Retirement - Taxes and Economic Factors to Consider
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2018, 05:45 PM
 
70 posts, read 66,385 times
Reputation: 194
Generally the more economy an area has, the more taxes to take care of it but also higher paying and more jobs. If you want low taxes, you need to move to desolate areas with little economic activity and jobs, areas usually more conservative and white if that's a persons thing...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2018, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Heart of the desert lands
3,976 posts, read 1,997,728 times
Reputation: 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post


The only relevance of tax rates is the resulting revenue, which is dependent not only on rates but on how much is being taxed.

Think. It's not hard. Minnesota has an average income of $70k (see my previous post for the link). The U.S. average is $59k. The average state tax burden in Minnesota (it varies, of course, with bracket and locality) is a bit over 10%. Let's round it up to 11% just for the discussion's sake.

Q: What's 89% of $70k?
A: $62.3k.

Got that? At a typical bracket, an average Minnesotan is taking home over $3000 more than an average American is earning before state/local taxes are withdrawn.

This isn't hard.

Another reason that Minnesotans pay more taxes is that Minnesota wages are higher on average, and thus more Minnesotans pay taxes in a higher tax bracket, because Minnesota - like every other state - uses a progressive tax system.

You want to pay lower taxes? Flip burgers at McDonald's. You'll have a lower income and be in a nice, low bracket. But you won't be the envy of anyone who can do basic math.
What?

I'll say it again.

Tax rates and revenue are not the same thing, even though there is correlation.

Minnesota at 10.8% of a top tier income, vice Arizona at 4.3% of the same, is over double the taxation, Minnesota over Arizona.

You can cheerlead Minnesota's overall revenue all you want, but that is simply the state sucking more money out of it's residents pockets, and most of us know it. The average income per capita is irrelevent regarding the tax rate .

As for your convoluted logic regarding average residents having more take home pay before taxes, vice the national average, well that dog dont hunt either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2022 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Minnesota

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top