Gas Prices!!!!!!!!!!! (how much, home, subsidized)

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by dravogadro

Hybrids are moving into the large vehicle market in a big way. I'm pretty sure a few companies at least have hybrid tractor prototypes out.

They are expected soon, but acquiring one will be very costly. This is not a knock on the hybrid idea; all tractors are very costly. Farmers will often keep tractors in service for a very long time because they cost so much, so it will take a long time before these would make a significant inroad on the total farming fleet in this country.
Hybrid tractor engines close to market | Utility Tractors content from Farm Industry News

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by xandrex

Consumption of gas in the United States is declining. Other than replacement, we likely don't need much more actual capacity (I'm open to the idea of more depending on factors, but my opinion doesn't really matter in that case). It will just lead to excess capacity in the future, which no business will want to have. It would just be an extra cost. When the refineries have gone down, we've been covered: we pay a bit more until the refinery is back up and then things go back to normal (refineries aren't free either...you'll pay for that in your gas as well).

The government wouldn't let gas jump to $6/gallon (but I'm sure we'll slowly hit that at some point). If prices were threatening to jump, they'd open the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

The gov't can influence, but not control the price. We could easily hit a time where they pulled out all the stops and still weren't able to keep the cost in check.

The reserve, though the largest in the world, holds a couple month's worth of oil (based on US consumption). But again, this is oil that needs to be refined. What if a couple southern refineries were down or worse blown up?

US oil consumption is pretty flat, but we constantly hear about limited refining capacity. If we ever end up with excess capacity (which I doubt) we can export!

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by xandrex

The government wouldn't let gas jump to $6/gallon (but I'm sure we'll slowly hit that at some point). If prices were threatening to jump, they'd open the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

Not to debate the wisdom of tapping or not tapping the SPR, but what is your basis for saying that $6 a gallon is any more of a trigger point than $4.50? Maybe the trigger point is $7, or maybe there isn't any price that the administration feels is too high. If you have a source for the $6 number, I would be interested in seeing it because I haven't read anything that would indicate that they have such a plan.

Again, I am not advocating doing this, I am just wondering where you got the $6 figure.

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by TimtheGuy

Uh huh.

Why are there states in the U.S. right now where gas is $1/gal cheaper than it is here in MN?

Because that's what gets the sellers the optimum profit. Take market economics 101. Demand as well as cost of production. I can tell you ONE thing that doesn't set it. Congress does not send out orders to set the price. Actually right now Congress is becalmed and couldn't do anything if it wanted to. Maybe you should ask if a paralyzed Congress is the villain. But, no, it is again just market economics. Remember that Koch Industries produces one out of every two gallons sold. Should you blame the Koch brothers? I'd love to do that, but it still wouldn't work for them if people just don't buy. So they've jacked the price up sky high and everyone here still buys. What reason is there for them to drop the price? If they sell all they have to sell, this is their optimum price point right now. When the supply starts to back up, then they'll recalculate.

Only in a planned economy would it work different. I'd say maybe 5 or 10 percent of gas consumers actually would support central planning.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Because that's what gets the sellers the optimum profit. Take market economics 101. Demand as well as cost of production. I can tell you ONE thing that doesn't set it. Congress does not send out orders to set the price. Actually right now Congress is becalmed and couldn't do anything if it wanted to. Maybe you should ask if a paralyzed Congress is the villain. But, no, it is again just market economics. Remember that Koch Industries produces one out of every two gallons sold. Should you blame the Koch brothers? I'd love to do that, but it still wouldn't work for them if people just don't buy. So they've jacked the price up sky high and everyone here still buys. What reason is there for them to drop the price? If they sell all they have to sell, this is their optimum price point right now. When the supply starts to back up, then they'll recalculate.

Only in a planned economy would it work different. I'd say maybe 5 or 10 percent of gas consumers actually would support central planning.

gee...where did i mention anything about congress setting anything?

i know all about the market forces.

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by TimtheGuy

gee...where did i mention anything about congress setting anything?

i know all about the market forces.

Good. Not everyone here seems to understand they have to NOT BUY if they object to the price. They want to "blame the government" rather than blame themselves for being docile customers. That's been encouraged by shady politicians. Sheeple always get the shaft.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Good. Not everyone here seems to understand they have to NOT BUY if they object to the price. They want to "blame the government" rather than blame themselves for being docile customers. That's been encouraged by shady politicians. Sheeple always get the shaft.

If you read my posts, I do contend the gov't plays a part (just not the part of 'setting prices'). I don't have to "not buy" to object to the price.

I just saw today's Star Trib. with the gas price map. My be the Koch brothers just don't like MN and ND huh??

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Not to debate the wisdom of tapping or not tapping the SPR, but what is your basis for saying that $6 a gallon is any more of a trigger point than $4.50? Maybe the trigger point is $7, or maybe there isn't any price that the administration feels is too high. If you have a source for the $6 number, I would be interested in seeing it because I haven't read anything that would indicate that they have such a plan.

Again, I am not advocating doing this, I am just wondering where you got the $6 figure.

I was referencing Timtheguy's point of "if gas shot to $6/gallon". I don't have any actual evidence of where the breaking point is. I think the breaking point depends on a whole host of factors. But if gas were to jump to $6/gallon right now, I think we'd actually see people talking about opening the SPR because the economy is still fairly fragile.

But really, the trigger could be $4.50. It could be $10. I'm not an expert on this (and, as far as anyone has made known, neither are they), so it's all just armchair quarterbacking.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by xandrex

I was referencing Timtheguy's point of "if gas shot to $6/gallon". I don't have any actual evidence of where the breaking point is. I think the breaking point depends on a whole host of factors. But if gas were to jump to $6/gallon right now, I think we'd actually see people talking about opening the SPR because the economy is still fairly fragile.

But really, the trigger could be $4.50. It could be $10. I'm not an expert on this (and, as far as anyone has made known, neither are they), so it's all just armchair quarterbacking.

Thanks. I missed Tim's reference and thought you might have read something somewhere.

[Beenhere4ever]

Love the fact that $4.35 will sell more hybrid and electric cars. Other industrial nations are really eating our lunch on those products because their people care. Nissan wants to be #1. In America, its all about monster trucks. But, wow, gas goes up and the kvetching is DEAFENING. People sure hate to lie down in the bed they've made for themselves. Me, I've shrunk my driving mileage to something like 25 percent of the norm. I can be quite relaxed about these big shifts. My ox isn't being gored.