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I have been studying City Data for some time now as I am "itching" to relocate. Want to experience a new Town and People and a longer warm season too (many People here were complaining about the unusually warm summer season of '05' whereas I was outside cooking food on the grill) . Would like to hear from those who have moved to or from this City or those who have always lived here .
It is nice that this City has a good public transit system and is Bicycle friendly. The economy seems to be doing well but most Employers are also asking for a college degree.
Last edited by EricBrewer; 01-24-2006 at 01:06 PM..
If you're asking about Plainview, it's not bad. There's worse out there; I grew up mostly in the town. The schools are all right, decent dining, the golf course is good. Depends on what information you're looking for.
I grew up in Minneapolis and went to college in FL. After school I returned "home" to MN (like Minnesotans who miss it) to begin a career but had a very tough time finding a job. I just moved back to FL but MN is fresh in my mind.
If you check out the many other postings on the MPLS and MN boards you'll find several consistent themes:
1. Many people who live in, or have lived in MN either love or hate it.
2. Most praise the "quality of life" and variety of recreational opportunities.
3. The topics of winter and taxes are dealt with very carefully and sometimes rationalized.
That being said, depending on your age, it could be very beneficial to try an new city for a while. I am fortunate in being able to see MN from both the outside and inside. After moving away you might discover, like many others, that either you long to go back or are glad to be somewhere new.
My impression of the Cities from spending the past 2 years as well as my entire youth there is that it is a fairly inward-looking place that likes to think highly of itself. There are many great things about MSP but there are other, newer changes that some, especially the politicians, don't want to admit.
Residents will boast of the great schools, close-knit neighborhoods, low crime rate, and strong arts community. They also love to cite statistical studies that claim MN is tops in "places to live." What they don't want to admit is that the schools, while still very good, are struggling under budget cuts even though taxes are rising fast (especially property taxes, as I'm sure you know), tuition at the U of M has almost doubled in 5 years, the economy is not that good, and housing has become very expensive (especially apartment rents).
Yes, the transit system is great but it's one of the most expensive in the country and one of the few with higher rush-hour fares. And yes, many employers ask for a college degree - because they can. MSP is tied with Boston for having the highest percentage of adults with a Bachelor's (over a third). Don't be fooled though, even with a degree, starting out after college in the Twin Cities is very challenging and the wages are depressed.
If you are looking for somewhere warmer, of course FL, and the Southwest (TX, NM, AZ, NV) come to mind, but Atlanta is also a great choice. It all depends on your idea of warm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBrewer
I have been studying City Data for some time now as I am "itching" to relocate. Want to experience a new Town and People and a longer warm season too (many People here were complaining about the unusually warm summer season of '05' whereas I was outside cooking food on the grill) . Would like to hear from those who have moved to or from this City or those who have always lived here .
It is nice that this City has a good public transit system and is Bicycle friendly. The economy seems to be doing well but most Employers are also asking for a college degree.
I wouldn't say the economy in the Twin Cities is unbelievable but it's definitely not bad. I graduated from Saint John's in 2004 and the majority of my college buddies are doing pretty well now. I might have one who wishes he had a better job but as a whole we have the jobs we want and are making liveable wages.
I grew up in Minneapolis and went to college in FL. After school I returned "home" to MN (like Minnesotans who miss it) to begin a career but had a very tough time finding a job. I just moved back to FL but MN is fresh in my mind.
If you check out the many other postings on the MPLS and MN boards you'll find several consistent themes:
1. Many people who live in, or have lived in MN either love or hate it.
2. Most praise the "quality of life" and variety of recreational opportunities.
3. The topics of winter and taxes are dealt with very carefully and sometimes rationalized.
That being said, depending on your age, it could be very beneficial to try an new city for a while. I am fortunate in being able to see MN from both the outside and inside. After moving away you might discover, like many others, that either you long to go back or are glad to be somewhere new.
My impression of the Cities from spending the past 2 years as well as my entire youth there is that it is a fairly inward-looking place that likes to think highly of itself. There are many great things about MSP but there are other, newer changes that some, especially the politicians, don't want to admit.
Residents will boast of the great schools, close-knit neighborhoods, low crime rate, and strong arts community. They also love to cite statistical studies that claim MN is tops in "places to live." What they don't want to admit is that the schools, while still very good, are struggling under budget cuts even though taxes are rising fast (especially property taxes, as I'm sure you know), tuition at the U of M has almost doubled in 5 years, the economy is not that good, and housing has become very expensive (especially apartment rents).
Yes, the transit system is great but it's one of the most expensive in the country and one of the few with higher rush-hour fares. And yes, many employers ask for a college degree - because they can. MSP is tied with Boston for having the highest percentage of adults with a Bachelor's (over a third). Don't be fooled though, even with a degree, starting out after college in the Twin Cities is very challenging and the wages are depressed.
If you are looking for somewhere warmer, of course FL, and the Southwest (TX, NM, AZ, NV) come to mind, but Atlanta is also a great choice. It all depends on your idea of warm.
I guess it is a matter of prospective. I know that many companies here are begging for workers, the unemployment rate in the twin cities is about 2.4%, yes, housing is on the expensive side compared to the south but you also have to take into consideration that the cost to build a house in MN is more then in Atlanta because of the added materials needed.
Having many friends that have moved from Minnesota to Atlanta, Texas and Arizona they ALL state that the schools there are horrible compared to what they have in Minnesota. Yes, some districts are struggling but many are not and even those struggling districts offer a better education then 49 other states in the union. Our college entrance exam scores and graduation rates are continually number one in the nation. Minnesota has long been a pioneer on the education front. Many of the 'new' and 'improved' programing offered around the nation are things Minnesota has done for years.
As for taxes, our property taxes have actually gone DOWN the past couple years even considering that we put many improvements into our house and it had a higher valuation.
College tuition has doubled across the nation in the past 5 years. If you look at trends from the past 30 years or so you will see that this isn't unusual. It isn't something that is specific to Minnesota.
Quite honestly, I don't know anyone that graduated from college in the past 5 years or so that couldn't find a job in their chosen field in MN. Most average to above average students have multiple job offers coming out of college. I guess your experience just isn't typical for MN and therefore your opinion is going to differ.
It must be a very personal, unique experience for everyone. I graduated with honors from one of the top universities in the nation and spent 9 months looking for a job in the Twin Cities. I sent 700 applications and had only a dozen interviews. I used employment agencies, family friends, internet job sites, walk in applications, everything.
My major was in Finance and Economics, so I was attracted to come back home because of the concentration of banks in Minneapolis. While I did eventually find a decent job with the company I wanted to work for the most, the salary was well below my fixed cost of living.
After a year there, many applications for better-paying jobs, and a dozen interviews, I was still in the same boat. The wage was enough to technically afford a safe, clean apartment but not enough to meet the 3x income requirment.
As for college, while in Florida, I noticed that tuition for in-state residents stayed pretty stable for 5 years. A MN resident will pay about twice as much for the U of M vs. a FL resident for a state school there. The U of M is a great school, but something's wrong when a Wisconsinite can attend the U for less than a Minnesotan.
I do like many things about Minnesota and wish I could be a snowbird, to have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, when you're just starting out, you have to make decisions based on survival, not ideals.
My story could have (and is) playing out similarly for millions of young people in all states, but I happened to take my first step in Minneapolis.
This is really not a story against MN per se, but about high housing costs, high taxes, high tuition, low wages, poor job security, and a sluggish economy nationwide. However, because MN is not growing as fast as FL, I don't feel the same orientation toward, and excitement about, the future that I see down here. I wish it were different, because I miss many aspects of MN every day, but some things weren't meant to be.
After a year there, many applications for better-paying jobs, and a dozen interviews, I was still in the same boat. The wage was enough to technically afford a safe, clean apartment but not enough to meet the 3x income requirment.
This is really not a story against MN per se, but about high housing costs, high taxes, high tuition, low wages, poor job security, and a sluggish economy nationwide. However, because MN is not growing as fast as FL, I don't feel the same orientation toward, and excitement about, the future that I see down here. I wish it were different, because I miss many aspects of MN every day, but some things weren't meant to be.
I think a big problem is your degree. I also majored in Finance, and I can tell you, its the same EVERYWHERE. Finance degrees get absolutely no respect outside of New York City, Charlotte, NC and Columbus, Ohio (these are real banking, Insurance and finance centers, Minneapolis is not).
If you arent locating to one of these areas, you are better off taking a few more classes, and switching in to accounting. That will get you much further.
As far as Minneapolis is concerned, they do have an extraoridnary number of fortune 500 companies headquartered for their overall metro size. They also have other entities, such as an IRS branch, which employ many professionals.
They also have a couple other benefits Ive seen
- Very close by suburbs. Many big cities dont have the luxury of having about 15 suburb towns (many of which have over 50k people themselves, making them decent sized cities in their own right) within 15 minutes of their downtown city center.
- Willingness to try new things. Not only within the constraints of education, but many other things, including building construction
- Sports teams. I cant think of any smaller metro area that has a major league team in all four major pro sports.
- Believe it or not, the housing is NOT overpriced as far as the US is concerned.
OK, I was hoping to make mid-30's out of college, which (ask any recent graduate) is not overly-ambitious, especially for an area like the Twin Cities. Believe it or not, many people come out of college expecting to make $50K+ their first year, which is sure to disappoint them.
I did research on salaries for finance majors and all the data must be from New York because the 2007 offers to new four year grads average about $47,900. That's unrealistic. And while Minneapolis does have a lot of opportunites in financial services, there are also a lot of qualified people there, so the competition keeps wages down.
My real salary was quite a bit less than my target range. The average rent in the Twin Cities is around $750 a month. Based on widely-accepted housing "affordability" indices, this is right at the upper limit of the suggested amount I should spend given and that number doesn't include utilites.
Yes, Florida is very expensive in many places. Studios in the Miami-Ft. Lauderdale area start in the mid $800s/month and are 20% smaller than what you'll find in MN. Miami was ranked as one of the least affordable cities in the country due to low wages and high rents.
But I'm not aiming for Miami or anywhere in South FL. I when to school there and hated the high costs. Orlando, on the other hand, is far more reasonable. A recent housing study placed its housing costs right on par with the average salaries offered.
In Central FL, you can find a nice 1 bedroom apartment for $750 a month in a safe neighborhood, professionally managed. If you want to spend $800 you can almost guarantee extras like a washer/dryer and microwave in the unit. These come in really handy and do a lot to make an apartment feel more like a home than a carpeted storage unit.
In the Twin Cities, a much lower percentage of rentals have these features and many are nearly $900 per month. I have a low cost of living outside of rent. But because of the outdated formulas used in housing applications, I couldn't "qualify" for many apartments based on income, even though I did technically have the means to afford them.
It's the housing costs that drove me out most of all. The Star Tribune did a front page report late last fall on the increase in number of families spending up to 60% of their monthly income on housing. In the metro area, this rose faster versus the state average overall. (The government recommends no more than 33% of your income should go to housing).
I live within my means and watch every penny. I liked the company I worked for and would have loved to stay. My comments are not directed solely at Minnesota, but they are rather a review of the current housing problems in the country as a whole. It's just that my reality played out in the Twin Cities, so that's the environment I know well.
If you ask around, you may find more people than you think who have family and friends that had a hard time finding good jobs in the Twin Cities. I did. Housing costs are rising and there's no denying that. When the Star Tribune wasn't obsessed with building a ballpark at taxpayers' expense, it was running stories on high property taxes.
A year earlier this paper published an article acknowledging that the job market was the weakest part of Minnesota's economy. A local news station also made note this as a possible issue for the 2006 governor's race. The November 2006 state economy returning to levels previously attained in the spring) and a .3% rise in the unemployment rate.
Of course, these figures are averages and individual industries may be doing far better or worse.
So please don't think I'm ranting on Minnesota because of my one personal experience. Minneapolis is my hometown and I like to keep up with developments there. It has a lot going for it and I do hope to return one day. It just happened that the Twin Cities were not the right fit at this point in my life. There's a place and time for everything, and I'm sure everyone can relate to that.
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Reflections of MN
