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Nah, you can judge me, I honestly couldn't care less. And my comments were directed at OP who is wondering where to live, not you. Don't look too hard for a reason to feel offended. Go enjoy a cold beer.
I don’t think I had to look too hard in this case….
One of my former classmates from years ago lives in South Minneapolis and sends her kids to subpar public schools because she feels it's her "duty" to support the community public schools. One of her kids literally had school cancelled for a week because the building didn't have AC during the early June heatwave. And this is an area where most homes go for $350-500k. Literally no suburban school had this issue.
I just don't understand why someone would "make a point" at the expense of their kid's future.
You don't understand?Sure you do! I remember reading a post of yours a while ago and thought, "this guy gets it when most people don't." You nailed a post when you said https://www.city-data.com/forum/chica...#post59786003:
".
..so long as the school offers a decent selection of AP classes (Bio, Chem, Physics, Calculus AB/BC, English Language, History), after-school clubs, decent band/orchestra program, etc. you should be fine. Of my classmates there are many MDs, PhDs, successful attorneys, bankers, entrepreneurs etc.
I never found being at a so-so high school to be at a disadvantage but I was fairly motivated and hounded by my parents to keep my grades up. In fact I probably did better because of less competition and more relaxed environment.
Oddly enough, the two people I know that went to New Trier have done very "so so" in their careers. One works as a typical cook county pencil-pushing bureaucrat in some agency, another is a car salesman. Nothing wrong with either of those jobs but spending a fortune on a home in an elite high school doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It may be better to spend that money on tutors, summer courses, books, test prep classes, travel abroad etc. instead."
So long as your former classmate has high expectations of their kids like your parents did, kids can flourish in a South Minneapolis school. As you know, they simply need to hang around the 15-25% of the kids that care (because their families care). It's not rocket science. Average test scores and average rankings apply to average caring family cultures. It's an open and shut case.
You don't understand?Sure you do! I remember reading a post of yours a while ago and thought, "this guy gets it when most people don't." You nailed a post when you said http:////www.city-data.com/forum/chi...#post59786003:
".
..so long as the school offers a decent selection of AP classes (Bio, Chem, Physics, Calculus AB/BC, English Language, History), after-school clubs, decent band/orchestra program, etc. you should be fine. Of my classmates there are many MDs, PhDs, successful attorneys, bankers, entrepreneurs etc.
I never found being at a so-so high school to be at a disadvantage but I was fairly motivated and hounded by my parents to keep my grades up. In fact I probably did better because of less competition and more relaxed environment.
Oddly enough, the two people I know that went to New Trier have done very "so so" in their careers. One works as a typical cook county pencil-pushing bureaucrat in some agency, another is a car salesman. Nothing wrong with either of those jobs but spending a fortune on a home in an elite high school doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It may be better to spend that money on tutors, summer courses, books, test prep classes, travel abroad etc. instead."
So long as your former classmate has high expectations of their kids like your parents did, kids can flourish in a South Minneapolis school. As you know, they simply need to hang around the 15-25% of the kids that care (because their families care). It's not rocket science. Average test scores and average rankings apply to average caring family cultures. It's an open and shut case.
In that post, someone was asking whether it's worth paying a huge premium for the top public school in IL. Paying double for a "top" school vs a "very excellent" school is obviously not worth it IMO when the difference is $300k in home price plus higher taxes. OP is a situation where more expensive homes (in Minneapolis walkable neighborhoods) actually have worse schools than cheaper homes out in the suburbs.
MPLS/St Paul schools are hyper-politicized and students are unfortunately political pawns. Minneapolis schools re-opened more than two months after most suburban districts were on 4 or 5 days a week because of teacher pushback, which is a disgrace because a lot of the lower-performing inner-city students need the school time. Some schools literally don't have air conditioning and had to cancel classes for several days, and this is in an area where homes cost a lot.
Would you be happy paying a huge premium for this so you can enjoy "walkability" for 6 months of the year? For me my kids' education comes first. Obviously I'm not going to pay $500k more for a house so that my kids can attended a 9.8/10 school rather than a 9.1/10 school. But at the same time, I'm not going to pay MORE and my kids end up going to a much worse school.
There is a reason houses on east side of France are noticeably cheaper then houses on west side of the street (east is Mpls, west is Edina) if this isn’t the most captain obvious thing…. Yes I know there million plus homes in Mpls area I’m talking about also…but I’d bet those kids are going to private schools.
I checked out the home values based on Zillow and did NOT see this pattern. The prices did vary with some houses being more valuable on the east side (MPLS). FYI, houses values vary based on many factors including sq area, bed rooms, bathrooms, materials used, etc. The fact a house is across the street, does not mean they are considered compatibles. So, you have to careful about that generalization. For instance, a 2000 sq foot home with 2bed/2baths vs. a 3000sq home with 4beds/4baths will have a different value despite being across the street.
I did not do an exhaustive evaluation but I will spend some time looking closer at this- sort of interesting.
Last edited by TheGrandViking; 07-23-2021 at 02:06 PM..
I checked out the home values based on Zillow and did NOT see this pattern. The prices did vary with some houses being more valuable on the east side (MPLS). FYI, houses values vary based on many factors including sq area, bed rooms, bathrooms, materials used, etc. The fact a house is across the street, does not mean they are considered compatibles. So, you have to careful about that generalization. For instance, a 2000 sq foot home with 2bed/2baths vs. a 3000sq home with 4beds/4baths will have a different value despite being across the street.
I did not do an exhaustive evaluation but I will spend some time looking closer at this- sort of interesting.
Correct, each house is valued based on many individual things. One is city it’s located in, that value is also based on school district it is in, money value and demand. The city right next to me St Anthony has higher value with it’s school district. The open enrollment waiting list is long.
If you go on Realtor app and find 50th and France and zoom out, you’ll be lucky to find an Edina home under $1m. There’s five of them, one for $400k that looks to be condemned, then $899k, $895k, $750k, and $450k. On the Mpls side at same area, there’s seven for $650k and under. There’s eleven homes for over $1m on the Edina side of this area. There’s five over $1m on Mpls half of this area.
Correct, each house is valued based on many individual things. One is city it’s located in, that value is also based on school district it is in, money value and demand. The city right next to me St Anthony has higher value with it’s school district. The open enrollment waiting list is long.
If you go on Realtor app and find 50th and France and zoom out, you’ll be lucky to find an Edina home under $1m. There’s five of them, one for $400k that looks to be condemned, then $899k, $895k, $750k, and $450k. On the Mpls side at same area, there’s seven for $650k and under. There’s eleven homes for over $1m on the Edina side of this area. There’s five over $1m on Mpls half of this area.
Did you happen to notice that the homes were, on average, smaller on the Minneapolis side? They likely were as the housing stock is older and although there are teardowns there you won’t see them to the extent that you see them in Edina, especially in the neighborhood located just southwest of 50th and France (mcmansion city). I imagine that the numbers line up pretty closely between SW Mpls and Edina if you compare house sale prices by $/sq ft.
I’m not anti-Edina by any means but there is a reason why we bought in Southwest Minneapolis. I would argue there is no better place in the Twin Cities if you’re going for a combination of urban amenities + family friendly. Highland Park/Merriam Park in St. Paul is a good option, but for me SW takes the prize.
Did you happen to notice that the homes were, on average, smaller on the Minneapolis side? They likely were as the housing stock is older and although there are teardowns there you won’t see them to the extent that you see them in Edina, especially in the neighborhood located just southwest of 50th and France (mcmansion city). I imagine that the numbers line up pretty closely between SW Mpls and Edina if you compare house sale prices by $/sq ft.
I’m not anti-Edina by any means but there is a reason why we bought in Southwest Minneapolis. I would argue there is no better place in the Twin Cities if you’re going for a combination of urban amenities + family friendly. Highland Park/Merriam Park in St. Paul is a good option, but for me SW takes the prize.
They are all pretty similar. Most of the Edina listings were older stock also, same with Mpls, but both had new McMansions. Taxes were about the same too. One small Edina benefit was can own a house on Minnehaha creek. That’s where the $4m Edina listing is. The SW Mpls area is great! There is one area in the picture we’re talking about and when I randomly found while working, the Country Club District is fairytale unique. Older homes which this place is, don’t appeal to me to live in, but is fun to look at. The prices in the area are very high, but it’s justified.
From my view Edina schools are excellent. I don’t rely on sites like Great Schools. It seems like more often than not they aren’t a good reflection of reality.
I have looked at various schools and I don't rely on Great Schools. But where can you actually find unbiased or somewhat unbiased information? Can you really count on the district websites? Seems like they will only highlight the good. But I don't think there is anything wrong with saying some schools have problems with test scores, lack of extra circulars etc.
It's the same here. We are in a very good school district but I know some of the schools are very sub far. I guess they are working on improving. They have been going nuts rebuilding old schools. We just added a new high school and my daughters school which is an option school grade 6-12 just rebuilt their school. She is excited to be back on the campus and to be going fulltime. (as of right now) but who the heck knows school starts after Labor Day.
I have looked at various schools and I don't rely on Great Schools. But where can you actually find unbiased or somewhat unbiased information? Can you really count on the district websites? Seems like they will only highlight the good. But I don't think there is anything wrong with saying some schools have problems with test scores, lack of extra circulars etc.
It's the same here. We are in a very good school district but I know some of the schools are very sub far. I guess they are working on improving. They have been going nuts rebuilding old schools. We just added a new high school and my daughters school which is an option school grade 6-12 just rebuilt their school. She is excited to be back on the campus and to be going fulltime. (as of right now) but who the heck knows school starts after Labor Day.
It's really, really difficult. One thing I've learned is that you can do all the reading and analysis you want, but unfortunately the best way to check school 'fit' is to actually send your kid there a year or two.
GreatSchools is a decent start - they usually gets the extremes correct (the schools rated 2/10 or worse, or 9/10 or better). It's the schools in the 5-8 range that require more examination. A school that is great may get penalized because of "equity" - not all groups performing the same, and gets a 5/10. This is totally irrelevant if your student is motivated and has good parental support.
The best approach IMO is to look at objective measures like AP course and extra-curricular offerings. These are probably the best indicator of the academic "caliber" of a school and can truly give your kid a leg-up when applying to college. Not offering AP Calculus BC IMO is a big red flag.
Test scores are hit-or-miss. Frequency of discipline issues is another statistics I wish were reported.
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Sure you do! I remember reading a post of yours a while ago and thought, "this guy gets it when most people don't." 
You nailed a post when you said 
