Will the Minneapolis/St. Paul area ever recover from the riots? Or has it already? (Bloomington: crime rates, neighborhood)

[Kaszilla]

Originally Posted by naycherboy

Interesting perspective. I'd like to agree with it...what data are you using to conclude that MPLS is safer than most of the top major cities in the country?

It's pretty much common knowledge. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Memphis etc all have higher crime rates than Mpls.

[Kavalier]

Originally Posted by Kaszilla

You mean only a scarey cat suburbanite? In the link you provided, Mpls was ranked relatively low at 25.

I'd prefer to be a predator, not prey.


I'm not a scaredy cat. I've been in St. Paul my whole life - seen quite a bit of bad rubbish, even though I live in one of the last "good" spots. Just always would like to be prepared. Women though don't often walk around at night alone. Do you suggest that they should?


And as I pointed out in my last post, Minneapolis ranks quite high in the robbery department.

[Kaszilla]

Originally Posted by Kavalier

I'd prefer to be a predator, not prey.


I'm not a scaredy cat. I've been in St. Paul my whole life - seen quite a bit of bad rubbish, even though I live in one of the last "good" spots. Just always would like to be prepared. Women though don't often walk around at night alone. Do you suggest that they should?


And as I pointed out in my last post, Minneapolis ranks quite high in the robbery department.

Overall, relative to other American cities, Mpls is not that bad.

[wamer27]

Originally Posted by Kaszilla

Overall, relative to other American cities, Mpls is not that bad.

But we’ve fallen from top 10 or top 5 status that seems to come out yearly. It’s trending down, not up. I don’t want it to fail at all, but looking how it’s being run, I really don’t see it on the rise in the short term.

[naycherboy]

Originally Posted by Kaszilla

It's pretty much common knowledge. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Memphis etc all have higher crime rates than Mpls.

No, this isn't correct.

Based on Corelogic data, which uses the most current crime and population data available. In this case, it doesn't include 2020 data as its not available yet and Minneapolis will suffer subtantially when that is integrated, as I elaborate on below.

Before outlining where you're wrong, I'm tempted to be generous and say that you fall victim to the same perception that many in Minneapolis do. And it's easy for it to happen. Minneapolis has had a halo since the 60s when it used to be seen as almost a crime free city. Things started deteriorating in the 70s and we had the establishment of Murderapolis in the 90s. Things have ebbed and flowed, but 2020 has seen much more violent crime. Why do we think Minneapolis is so safe? Many reasons, but the big one to me which is admittedly anecdotal, is how many nice people there are. After all, crime is always committed by a fraction of the population in any developed country so the bulk of our interactions are with some really solid, kind people. Not just my opinion, but the opinion of many be it locals, nationwide visitors and international travelers. Will that halo persist given the events of 2020? At first I thought no, given the way the riots were (not) dealt with but now I'm admittedly more optimistic. Minneapolis has many attractions.

But when you look at the numbers, Minneapolis is a rather dangerous city from a violent crime perspective. Admittedly, citywide data for any city has issues because crime is neighborhood specific whether it's Memphis, Sao Paulo or Shanghai in the 1930s. There are ALWAYS nice neighborhoods to live in, even in third world countries, that have low crime and other attributes that come along with it. Minneapolis has many nice neighborhood. The parks, the housing stock....all more reasons why many think Minneapolis is a gem. And it is in many ways. But it has some of the most pronoucned crime statistics in the country.

And to be specific on your list, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta and Dallas all have lower violent crime rates per 1000 people than Minneapolis in the Corelogic data. Again, that will deteriorate after 2020 data is integrated. If I cherry pick murder data only, Minneapolis does better. But for violent crime overall, it's not a great picture. Nor is it for overall crime. If I analyze 2020 data, where Memphis and Detroit haven't reported and been integrated yet, Minneapolis is worse than all on your list except St. Louis and Dallas. I'd add that your list of cities has a bit of bias to them. It's quite difficult to be worse than St. Louis where the murder rate exceeds some cities in Brazil in given years.

Common knowledge is often correct, but it has sizeable gaps in it that need to be remediated by an intelligent approach to the facts.

Here's a read that's easy to digest for all levels of understanding of the issue. If you search more thoroughly, you will find that the data on Minneapolis crime is quite damning.

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site

[Kavalier]

Originally Posted by naycherboy

Minneapolis has had a halo since the 60s when it used to be seen as almost a crime free city. Things started deteriorating in the 70s and we had the establishment of Murderapolis in the 90s.

Not surprisingly, when the demographics of the Cities started to change. And the demographic change are from the people that commit today (nationally) over 70% of all violent crime.

[RedtheCat]

Originally Posted by naycherboy

No, this isn't correct.

Based on Corelogic data, which uses the most current crime and population data available. In this case, it doesn't include 2020 data as its not available yet and Minneapolis will suffer subtantially when that is integrated, as I elaborate on below.

Before outlining where you're wrong, I'm tempted to be generous and say that you fall victim to the same perception that many in Minneapolis do. And it's easy for it to happen. Minneapolis has had a halo since the 60s when it used to be seen as almost a crime free city. Things started deteriorating in the 70s and we had the establishment of Murderapolis in the 90s. Things have ebbed and flowed, but 2020 has seen much more violent crime. Why do we think Minneapolis is so safe? Many reasons, but the big one to me which is admittedly anecdotal, is how many nice people there are. After all, crime is always committed by a fraction of the population in any developed country so the bulk of our interactions are with some really solid, kind people. Not just my opinion, but the opinion of many be it locals, nationwide visitors and international travelers. Will that halo persist given the events of 2020? At first I thought no, given the way the riots were (not) dealt with but now I'm admittedly more optimistic. Minneapolis has many attractions.

But when you look at the numbers, Minneapolis is a rather dangerous city from a violent crime perspective. Admittedly, citywide data for any city has issues because crime is neighborhood specific whether it's Memphis, Sao Paulo or Shanghai in the 1930s. There are ALWAYS nice neighborhoods to live in, even in third world countries, that have low crime and other attributes that come along with it. Minneapolis has many nice neighborhood. The parks, the housing stock....all more reasons why many think Minneapolis is a gem. And it is in many ways. But it has some of the most pronoucned crime statistics in the country.

And to be specific on your list, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta and Dallas all have lower violent crime rates per 1000 people than Minneapolis in the Corelogic data. Again, that will deteriorate after 2020 data is integrated. If I cherry pick murder data only, Minneapolis does better. But for violent crime overall, it's not a great picture. Nor is it for overall crime. If I analyze 2020 data, where Memphis and Detroit haven't reported and been integrated yet, Minneapolis is worse than all on your list except St. Louis and Dallas. I'd add that your list of cities has a bit of bias to them. It's quite difficult to be worse than St. Louis where the murder rate exceeds some cities in Brazil in given years.

Common knowledge is often correct, but it has sizeable gaps in it that need to be remediated by an intelligent approach to the facts.

Here's a read that's easy to digest for all levels of understanding of the issue. If you search more thoroughly, you will find that the data on Minneapolis crime is quite damning.

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site

Interesting!! What caused Murderapolis in the90's??

[Kavalier]

Originally Posted by RedtheCat

Interesting!! What caused Murderapolis in the90's??

In short: demographic changes to our once-fine Twin Cities.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by RedtheCat

Interesting!! What caused Murderapolis in the90's??

Crack cocaine and wars between the gangs that distributed it. It happened all over the US but Minneapolis stood out because it had been a very low crime area prior to that.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...001-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/30/u...nneapolis.html

[RedtheCat]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Crack cocaine and wars between the gangs that distributed it. It happened all over the US but Minneapolis stood out because it had been a very low crime area prior to that.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...001-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/30/u...nneapolis.html

Happened to Milwaukee too. Growing up there in the 70s 80's crime was fairly low, around 1990 or so it exploded!! So sad, tragic and needless. At least in the Cities, suburban people seem to care more than suburban Milwaukee people