"Achievement Gap" (Minneapolis: low income, how much, high school)

[golfgal]

The Star-Tribune is reporting today about the "achievement gap" between whites and non-whites. Puzzling out the achievement gap | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/local/114486594.html?elr=KArksUUUoDEy3LGDiO7aiU - broken link).

I will contend that this issue is NOT race related, more socioeconomic related but the article is what it is.

I find this particular comment very offensive to EVERY educator in the state:

"At a time when the demographics of our state are rapidly changing, the kids who need a great public education the most are not getting one."

Ok, are they not "getting" an education or are they not taking advantage of the opportunities before them??

If the "white" students in a particular school (or for my argument the middle class and above students) can achieve, where is the "gap" coming from. I certainly do not believe it is from the schools themselves but the individual students.

Before we get into the "they work 3 jobs" argument, no they don't. If a family has parents working 3 jobs to make ends meet they are teaching a strong work ethic to their children and that carries forward into schoolwork. Low income students have access to free child care, free breakfast and lunch programs, they COULD take advantage of open enrollment, with FREE busing if you are in Minneapolis specifically but other options in other towns too. Low income students pay NOTHING for college either through grants/scholarships, etc. Don't believe me, EFC Calculator: How Much Money for College Will You Be Expected to Contribute?. Plug in some numbers. I plugged in numbers for a family making $40,000 (2 parents, 3 kids, one in college). The expected family contribution was $216 for the year. I am sure they can find $20/month in their budget to send a kid to college.

There are programs out there for early childhood learning to get kids on track for school that are also free. Sooo, why is it so hard for the powers to be to figure this out? Why not address the REAL problem and work with the FAMILIES to create a sense of urgency to GET AN EDUCATION. Maybe create some tie in to welfare dollars that your children need to be getting a C or better or your aid will be cut (even kids with learning disabilities can easily achieve this with their modifications).

Is this the proverbial "elephant in the room" or why can't we figure this out? In any other developed country in the world, most of these kids would not even BE in school any longer, they would have been cast of long ago into factory jobs, etc.

[cinnamon_toast]

I disagree with golfgal that poverty is not a factor in the achievement gap. Single moms, families that are out of work or struggling with health issues are focused on survival -- putting food on the table -- and not their kids' academics.

As a literacy volunteer, one of the other big contributors I see is no parental support at home. There is no reinforcement of the skills they are learning at school, no help with homework, no one is even ensuring that homework is being completed. Which may be a result of economic stress and it may also be due to the fact that education is not valued or emphasized in the child's family. I think you elude to that fact.

Also, tying grades to welfare? You are in effect punishing the child by withholding money for something that is possibly a result of their parents' choices or misfortunes.

I also don't think that kids NEED to go to college to be productive and self-supporting. It's not for everyone, and it should not be used as a measure of success. But I do feel strongly that they need to graduate from high school in order to function effectively in society.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast

I disagree that poverty is a factor in the achievement gap. Single moms, families that are out of work or struggling with health issues are focused on survival -- putting food on the table -- and not their kids' academics.

This makes it sound like you agree...?

[cinnamon_toast]

YES, you are correct -- I do agree that poverty is a factor in school achievement. I do not, however, agree with most of what golfgal is saying.

[lalife]

For some reason, any comment that Golfgal makes about white and non-white education comparisons is not one that I want to hear or take the time to understand.

Next.

[Cameron H]

I'd make the radical suggestion that it's not a simple either/or, but rather a complex problem. It's not just poverty -- some poor kids excel in school. It's not just lazy kids -- some schools and teachers are delivering lousy education, and some of those lousy schools and teachers are concentrated in specific districts. It's not just broken families -- some good parents raise underachieving students. It not just lack of opportunity -- some kids feel sufficiently alienated and disenfranchised from society that they don't take full advantage of the opportunities they do have.

In other words, the "real problem" is the idea that there's a "REAL problem," that there's just one elephant in the room. The OP is a perfect example of that.

[audadvnc]

The Strib has recently taken a rightward shift in editorial stance. It's not the same paper it was in 1995; it's more like Fox lite now.

The real problem is the ever widening gap between the rich and everybody else. Until that issue is addressed responsibly, nothing else will make a difference.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I will contend that this issue is NOT race related, more socioeconomic related but the article is what it is.

***

Ok, are they not "getting" an education or are they not taking advantage of the opportunities before them??

***

There are programs out there for early childhood learning to get kids on track for school that are also free. Sooo, why is it so hard for the powers to be to figure this out? Why not address the REAL problem and work with the FAMILIES to create a sense of urgency to GET AN EDUCATION. Maybe create some tie in to welfare dollars that your children need to be getting a C or better or your aid will be cut (even kids with learning disabilities can easily achieve this with their modifications).

Is this the proverbial "elephant in the room" or why can't we figure this out? In any other developed country in the world, most of these kids would not even BE in school any longer, they would have been cast of long ago into factory jobs, etc.

You raise some really important issues. I agree that the biggest problem in American education generally is apathy. If kids don't want to be in school and take the hard road to make an honest living, what can we do about it? Unfortunately, people think throwing money at school systems will just cover up the problem. But it doesn't. AND it wastes money--either costing taxpayers in the present, or incurring debt and "kicking the can down the road."

To be honest, I don't think there is an easy solution... maybe less social welfare programs. Giving everybody "free" healthcare, etc., sounds great, but it has perverse incentives. The higher the safety net, the less incentive to grow up and get serious about life.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

The Strib has recently taken a rightward shift in editorial stance. It's not the same paper it was in 1995; it's more like Fox lite now.

Seriously?

[Cameron H]

Originally Posted by southernsmoke

The higher the safety net, the less incentive to grow up and get serious about life.

Yeah, that's why Scandinavian countries are such dystopian hellholes. LOL.