Miami Tech overhype (Orlando, Mayo: city hall, renting, crime rate)

[vacollins]

Although I might take the 20 mil and then get out of there the first chance I get.

[renchis1]

Hi there, deep blue liberal here considering moving to Miami from DC. What areas do you recommend? I am looking for something with a neighborhood feeling and as liberal as we can find. (Used to live in Williamsburg Brooklyn and WEHO in LA, you get the type

[elchevere]

Wynwood would be closest to Williamsburg that I can think of….artsy, hipster, craft beer, cool restaurants, multiracial, growing area more mid rise v high rise..

Originally Posted by renchis1

Hi there, deep blue liberal here considering moving to Miami from DC. What areas do you recommend? I am looking for something with a neighborhood feeling and as liberal as we can find. (Used to live in Williamsburg Brooklyn and WEHO in LA, you get the type

[urbancuriosity]

Originally Posted by vacollins

... Tech jobs are increasingly becoming remote, especially with cloud development....

I agree with this. I am a tech worker who lives in California. I broached the subject of working remote and he has no problem with it. He said that one thing we have learned from COVID is that we can be distributed and still work well together.

[elchevere]

Interesting podcast with Keith Rabois on tech and Miami.

Cited people moving away from SF, where some tech companies emerged rather than Palo Alto after 2010 more for social reasons yet the city was not tech friendly and did not have proper infrastructure in place to support the growth. Crime, homelessness, cost of housing, taxes (with a 13% state income tax added to Federal, half of all wealthy individuals money goes to the government)-- all issues led him and others to look elsewhere with Covid reinforcing and providing an opportunity for that.

Loves Miami because he feels the city and state treats its citizens as customers--what can we do to help you. Better value proposition than California. People moving here are voting with their feet. Sees Miami attracting math and tech and loves the cosmopolitan nature and high quality urban amenities.

In spite of the lack of a Stanford or MIT, Rabois feels more talent will still come and eventually build a quality STEM educational institution that provides a constant source of talent whether it is University of Miami or someone else.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/17/o...th-rabois.html

If you cannot get past paywall, do a search for "Is Tech's Love Affair with Miami About Taxes or Something Else?"....can play the podast via link from Apple, Spotify, or Google.

[CXT2000]

Originally Posted by elchevere

Very good podcast with Keith Rabois on tech and Miami.

Cited people moving away from SF, where some tech companies emerged rather than Palo Alto after 2010 more for social reasons yet the city was not tech friendly and did not have proper infrastructure in place. Crime, homeless, cost of housing all issues led him and others to look elsewhere with Covid reinforcing that.

Loves Miami because he feels the city and state treats its citizens as customers--what can we do to help you. Better value proposition than California. People moving here are voting with their feet. Sees Miami attracting math and tech.

In spite of the lack of a Stanford or MIT, Rabois feels the talent will still come and eventually build an educational institution that provides a constant source of talent whether it is University of Miami or another institution.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/17/o...th-rabois.html

Ah yes, Rabois, the absolute slime of a person that he is always overhypes Miami. All he does is talk **** about every city and thinks Miami is the best for everything. Funny enough, every city saw tech growth and at a faster clip than Miami, and so far in 2022, this is also the case. The fact that people are still having trouble finding local talent is another red flag, and a lot of people who moved to Miami in 2020-2021 are now leaving. Rabois is funny though, Miami has a higher crime rate than SF. He always says the opposite cause his car has not been broken into yet.

Add low wages, now the most expensive housing market in the U.S (congrats?) lack of institutions, infrastructure and so on, "Miami Tech" won't sustain itself and will falter. Already people are raising red flags about this moment. Add that the mayor and others always refuse to make public real tech job growth + the DDA's abysmal numbers last year and how the city only focuses on VC, it's all speculation.

[elchevere]

Clearly, he has a different take than you.....he's not the only one who has moved here--be it from CA or NYC (BTW, many finance/hedge funds--a well entrenched industry in Miami and SoFla--are now hiring up to 40% of their workers with tech backgrounds vs. just finance/MBA in the past) are tired of the issues he cited--crime (decades low in Miami, bucking the national trend); homelessness (far less than exists in SF Bay Area or NYC), and lower taxes....

biggest issue I see is any such growth seems better suited right now for transplants bringing their talents and/or wealth earned elsewhere than for many locals. Friend of mine from San Diego who works for Salesforce will be taking a 10% pay cut to relocate and work from Miami. Million dollar question is if/when locals benefit. Miami seems to be poaching some talent away from other areas the way Texas did starting many decades earlier--though on a smaller scale.

Originally Posted by djesus007

Ah yes, Rabois, the absolute slime of a person that he is always overhypes Miami. All he does is talk **** about every city and thinks Miami is the best for everything. Funny enough, every city saw tech growth and at a faster clip than Miami, and so far in 2022, this is also the case. The fact that people are still having trouble finding local talent is another red flag, and a lot of people who moved to Miami in 2020-2021 are now leaving. Rabois is funny though, Miami has a higher crime rate than SF. He always says the opposite cause his car has not been broken into yet.

Add low wages, now the most expensive housing market in the U.S (congrats?) lack of institutions, infrastructure and so on, "Miami Tech" won't sustain itself and will falter. Already people are raising red flags about this moment. Add that the mayor and others always refuse to make public real tech job growth + the DDA's abysmal numbers last year and how the city only focuses on VC, it's all speculation.

[CXT2000]

Originally Posted by elchevere

Clearly, he has a different take than you.....he's not the only one who has moved here--be it from CA or NYC (BTW, many finance/hedge funds--a well entrenched industry in Miami and SoFla--are now hiring up to 40% of their workers with tech backgrounds vs. just finance/MBA in the past) are tired of the issues he cited--crime (decades low in Miami, bucking the national trend); homelessness (far less than exists in SF Bay Area or NYC), and lower taxes....biggest issue I see is any such growth seems better suited right now for transplants bringing their talents and/or wealth earned elsewhere than for many locals. Million dollar question is if/when locals benefit.

Of course he has a different take! He's literally in bed with the mayor LOL. It's always the same 5-6 people from NYC/SF hyping Miami, while others have pointed out the hype and speculation. Lot's of people who migrated to Miami for "tech work" have now quietly left to L.A, Austin, Orlando, Raleigh, etc. Crime in Miami is also not below national levels. And again, lower taxes sure, but average low wages + high PT + high COL and you're actually below the levels seen in other states. And again, Miami is the most expensive housing market in the U.S, most locals spend more than 30% of their income on rent, poverty levels will increase and homelessness is less visible cause of inhuman clearing they do (which I know you support). The Miami tech growth is primarily for transplants from two cities, locals however are leaving in droves.

Finally, the fact that these people always avoid answering people's questions on how much tech growth has really happened is another red flag. They reference LinkedIn which is not accurate, they always say percentile but Miami has such a small tech work force that hiring 200 people can easily be 20% for example.. And once again, red flags about Miami sustaining the momentum, it's already being questioned one year in.

[elchevere]

Must not be that many locals who have left, along with recent transplants who picked up and followed them by moving to LA, Orlando and Raleigh (mass exodus) since demand remains high, inventories low, and still rising prices (renting or owning) reflecting that. Miami net inflows exceeded outflows and pretty sure The NY Times isn’t doing fluff pieces on behalf of Miami.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/r...k-housing.html

Maybe that could change after rates rise, some return to an office from where they came from, another building collapse or hurricane, recession, etc.

As for crime, I'm citing data provided by the Mayor's office though I'm open to other data you might have and can share.

https://www.thenextmiami.com/miami-k...arply-in-2021/

Don't get me wrong...I'm not completely sold--Microsoft with 300 job openings in Miami (some coming from Ft Lauderdale) is not the same as their moving their HQ here or leasing a 150,000 square foot office as they are doing in Manhattan.

Originally Posted by djesus007

Of course he has a different take! He's literally in bed with the mayor LOL. It's always the same 5-6 people from NYC/SF hyping Miami, while others have pointed out the hype and speculation. Lot's of people who migrated to Miami for "tech work" have now quietly left to L.A, Austin, Orlando, Raleigh, etc. Crime in Miami is also not below national levels. And again, lower taxes sure, but average low wages + high PT + high COL and you're actually below the levels seen in other states. And again, Miami is the most expensive housing market in the U.S, most locals spend more than 30% of their income on rent, poverty levels will increase and homelessness is less visible cause of inhuman clearing they do (which I know you support). The Miami tech growth is primarily for transplants from two cities, locals however are leaving in droves.

Finally, the fact that these people always avoid answering people's questions on how much tech growth has really happened is another red flag. They reference LinkedIn which is not accurate, they always say percentile but Miami has such a small tech work force that hiring 200 people can easily be 20% for example.. And once again, red flags about Miami sustaining the momentum, it's already being questioned one year in.

[Corrie22]

Originally Posted by djesus007

Miami has a higher crime rate than SF..

San Francisco's crime rate is 111% higher than the national average.....

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
Miami's crime rate is 41% higher than the national average....

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San Francisco wins by almost 3 times more.......