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Yes the salt air and living on Miami Beach will affect things left outdoors. Your indoor electronics shouldn't have an issue if you leave your windows shut and run your a/c.
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Originally Posted by straight shooter
Yes, the environment close to the beach could definitely affect your electronics especially if you don't use them often. My recommendation would be to keep all doors and windows closed, the a/c on, and even have a dehumidifier in the room where you will have your computer equipment. Another thing that helps is to have as much solid state as possible.
Ahhh, there's the problem though. I will be installing a whole room ventilation system in my studio apt (for health reasons). So while the system does have *some* heat and humidity exchange, it will constantly be fresh air from the outside.
And hence, that's why i'm concerned.
In the original thread, the OP of this thread stated that he was planning to use his electronics directly on the beach daily, and to leave his windows open to his new beachfront home as much as possible. Since many people don't like clicking on links to other threads, here was my response:
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This is something I'm still learning about. I used to live in Kendall, where salt air was not much a problem, but it was for companies whose equipment trucks went all over the county regularly. Then I moved to the Keys, but have not quite been here a year yet. What I've learned is that you have to be careful to protect your electronic and metal possessions as much as possible, because living by the sea is highly corrosive to them. So, people who own vehicles are advised to rinse them off - especially underneath - at least once a week to prevent the bottoms rusting out, or eventual electrical problems. You have to take care of tools and house fixtures like front porch lamps, rinsing them or greasing them up from time to time. You learn to buy things that are resistant to rust, either due to coating, being made of aluminum, or things made of plastic - which last much longer in this environment. I have read that internal appliances like TVs, computers, refrigerators, A/Cs, etc., tend to have a much shorter lifespan on the coast than they do in far inland. I haven't been here long enough to test that theory out, but I do know it is an issue for things like cable box equipment sitting outside in a truck all day with the door frequently opening and closing. [The original thread mentioned the tendency of all of Comcast's cable boxes to be internally corroded due to salt air exposure.]
I don't think it's immediate. But if you're going to expose your electronics and metals to open sea air all the time, you might expect them to die a few years earlier than the average. I would recommend limiting unnecessary exposure - do what is worth it to fit the lifestyle you want to have, but keep in mind the higher cost of living oceanside in terms of replacement items, and don't expose them on days you don't really care either way.
A note, your intent to keep the windows open is admirable, but not always practical in SFL. Most of the year, even when the temps are not that high humidity is much higher than the rest of the country. All of that moisture hangs out in your walls and air ducts, and creates mold. If you don't cycle the A/C for roughly an hour at least once a day with the windows closed (especially during the rainy season), or the heat during the one or two cold weeks we get, mold can grow really easily and make you very sick. I'm not saying never open the windows, but do keep the salt air corrosion and threat of mold in mind. Before SFL had A/C, these were constant problems. Just keep it in mind and cycle the air from time to time, and keep on the lookout for signs of mold, excessive moisture (especially in bathrooms), or you feeling chronically unwell when you're at home.
One thing that might help with taking electronics to the beach, is that they are making some models now that are waterproof. That might be a good idea there anyway, and the sealing would probably also help keep salt air out of the internal circuits.
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It is not remotely true that the local ocean water is not salty enough to corrode. I live in a waterfront home in the Keys, and even with my house back a good distance from the ocean and trees to block the spray, everything on these islands corrode. If not taken care of, it is common to find rust on the doors, window frames, and metal house fixtures. Bottoms of cars rust and fall out. I have accidentally left non-rust-proofed tools outside overnight, and found them with significant rust marks by the next morning, even staining the concrete I left them on! What I have read so far is that electronics do not fail immediately, but will tend to fail a few years earlier than they would inland - so the Australian guy living here only 5 years would not have enough experience to know, as most appliances should last longer than that and corrosion is slow, not fast. If you're not opening your electronics up to look inside at minor details, you don't know what's going on in there until the corrosion becomes bad and the circuits fail or get fritzy.
The idea of the OP to leave windows open most of the year is what will speed this issue up. Most internal stuff will last longer than outdoor stuff because people use A/C, but if he doesn't, the indoor stuff will corrode more quickly. If he is planning to live in a condo on Miami Beach, he is not likely to have protection from the air blowing off open ocean water via mangroves or other trees - the more direct the view, the more direct the salt air effects. I don't personally think it's a reason not to move, but taking some extra precautions to protect your stuff like running A/C and having waterproofed devices (the sealing should also block salt air and moisture a bit) will help a lot.
Ahhh, there's the problem though. I will be installing a whole room ventilation system in my studio apt (for health reasons). So while the system does have *some* heat and humidity exchange, it will constantly be fresh air from the outside.
And hence, that's why i'm concerned.
If you run the system with the windows closed, and it has air filters on it, that should help a good deal. You would also want to buy an industrial dehumidifier if you're not running A/C all the time the circulation system is on, to help keep the moisture down, which will protect the electronics and also prevent mold.
You may also want to consider if there are other means of achieving your health goals without the circulation system, given that you're moving so close to the oceanfront. I don't know your health concerns, but perhaps there is other equipment out there that might give you what you need without the risk - say a sophisticated air filtration system, or plants that greatly increase oxygen in the rooms and help filter air quality. Maybe not, but perhaps there are other creative solutions that don't involve drawing salt air inside your home. Having constant exposure might cause problems to your refrigerator and TV, etc. over multiple years.
If you run the system with the windows closed, and it has air filters on it, that should help a good deal. You would also want to buy an industrial dehumidifier if you're not running A/C all the time the circulation system is on, to help keep the moisture down, which will protect the electronics and also prevent mold.
You may also want to consider if there are other means of achieving your health goals without the circulation system, given that you're moving so close to the oceanfront. I don't know your health concerns, but perhaps there is other equipment out there that might give you what you need without the risk - say a sophisticated air filtration system, or plants that greatly increase oxygen in the rooms and help filter air quality. Maybe not, but perhaps there are other creative solutions that don't involve drawing salt air inside your home. Having constant exposure might cause problems to your refrigerator and TV, etc. over multiple years.
Excellent ideas! Thank you!
I am recovering from long term Lyme Disease, so i need to have the Co2 ppm in my apt below 450, as close to outside air (400 ppm) as possible. So i like your plants idea, that is something i've looked into, but not tested out yet. Without ventilation, typical indoor air has a ppm of 600 to 1,000. Air filtration systems will not lower Co2 levels. The only way is via ventilation or plants.
I will be running a/c all the time, so no need for a dehumidifier. As far as the ventilation system, it does have allergen air filters on it, but those wont catch most of the salt in the air.
So i'm basically stuck - if i want the fresh oxygen of the outside air, then i will be getting the salt in that air too.
I am recovering from long term Lyme Disease, so i need to have the Co2 ppm in my apt below 450, as close to outside air (400 ppm) as possible. So i like your plants idea, that is something i've looked into, but not tested out yet. Without ventilation, typical indoor air has a ppm of 600 to 1,000. Air filtration systems will not lower Co2 levels. The only way is via ventilation or plants.
I will be running a/c all the time, so no need for a dehumidifier. As far as the ventilation system, it does have allergen air filters on it, but those wont catch most of the salt in the air.
So i'm basically stuck - if i want the fresh oxygen of the outside air, then i will be getting the salt in that air too.
I appreciate your help. Thanks!!!
I would consider growing plants indoors to start with, and monitoring the CO2 if you are able. I suspect the ventilation system would lead to astronomical electric bills, due to having to run that around the clock, and the A/C around the clock, and the A/C then has to constantly fight to lower the air because new hot moist air is constantly being brought in. I personally would find that cost prohibitive.
There are specific plants that are known to be exceptional at filtering air and having high oxygen output - I forget which ones though. Try some research online first, because at the very least maybe you can have some of those and not have to run the other two systems as hard. I grow many plants indoors (nearly 3 ft wide the length of each stretch of windows in multiple rooms), and I have found that the A/C, and some careful attention, leave the moisture at an acceptably low level so mold is not produced, but it really freshens the air a great deal. Plants tend to grow really well in windows in FL, and I have even been able to grow fruiting plants in them - although surprisingly food plants tend to get aphids or spider mites faster indoors than outdoors because they have no natural predators inside, so I also have to spray them with rosemary or chili/garlic oil from time to time (I grow only organic). Typical non-food house plants don't need that kind of care at all though, they flourish in just a few hours of direct sunlight (or sometimes only indirect light, like orchids) indoors with nothing but water. You may be able to get enough plants known for their air quality properties into each room that you are at levels similar to the outdoors.
Another thing I would recommend is to try running your stove fan and/or bathroom vent for an hour or two a day, rather than installing an expensive circulation system in the house. With ceiling or floor fans running in each room, that fresh air will spread fast with no mosquitoes that would come from opening a window or door, and probably a lot less cost than buying and running a major household system. Perhaps between the plants and occasional vent use, you might be able to keep costs low, get enough fresh air, and also keep the salt intrusion to a minimum.
Just some thoughts. I just think the A/C bill would be crazy high trying to keep up with constant fresh hot damp air brought in from outside on Miami Beach, and then you also run the risk of drawing in pollutants like exhaust from the city/street, which can't be helpful to your Lyme.
House plants are the ultimate in functional decorating. Some well-placed greenery can not only brighten a space but also purify the air -- and they're also helpful in creating a more relaxing, restful ambiance in any room. We know that spending time in nature is linked to reduced stress levels and relieve tension. In fact, in a 2008 study, Dutch researchers found that hospital patients with indoor plants in their rooms reported lower stress levels than patients without them.
That's why we've rounded up 10 beautiful houseplants that are easy to take care of and effective at increasing oxygen and clearing out toxins for cleaner breathing air. (Some were listed in the top 10 best air-purifiers in a study of houseplants by NASA scientists!). So try adding one to your bedroom or office space for a little dose of zen.
1. Aloe Plant
The gel of the aloe plant has a number of healing properties, from soothing skin burns and cuts to detoxing the body, and it can also help to monitor the air quality in your home. The plant can help clear the air of pollutants found in chemical cleaning products, and when the amount of harmful chemicals in the air becomes excessive, the plants' leaves will display brown spots. Just an FYI: Grows best with lots of sun.
2. English IvyNASA scientists listed the English Ivy as the number one best air-filtering houseplant, as it is the most effective plant when it comes to absorbing formaldehyde. It's also incredibly easy to grow and adaptable -- try it as a hanging or a floor plant. Grow in moderate temperatures and medium sunlight.
3. Rubber TreeRubber trees are good for cleaning the air and are one of the easiest plants to grow, as they thrive even in dim lighting and cooler climates. The low-maintenance plant is a powerful toxin eliminator and air purifier.
4. Peace LilyThe beautiful peace lily plant is a wonderful low-maintenance flower to keep in the home. Peace lilies do well in shade and cooler temperatures, and they can reduce the levels of a number of toxins in the air.
5. Snake PlantSnake plants don't need much light or water to survive, so they're an easy choice for any corner of your home. The plant absorbs carbon dioxide and releases oxygen during the night (while most plants do during the day), so add one to your bedroom for a clean-air boost.
6. Bamboo PalmThe attractive bamboo palm also made NASA's list of top clean-air plants with a purifying score of 8.4. It's also particularly effective at clearing out benzene and trichloroethylene. These need to be well-watered, in shade or indirect sunlight.
7. PhilodendronThe heart-shaped philodendron (pictured at left) is a popular plant choice for indoor areas, as they're easy to care for and can grow decorative vines. Like the English Ivy, they are particularly good at absorbing formaldehyde. They can also last for many years when properly cared for. Grow with moderate water and some sunlight and they'll be fine.
8. Spider PlantOne of the most common house plants, Spider Plants are decorative, easy to grow, and also make the NASA list of the best air-purifying plants. Spider plants are effective at fighting pollutants including benzene, formaldehyde, carbon monoxide and xylene.
9. Red-Edged DracaenaThis beautiful, vibrant plant can grow to be ceiling-height (15-foot dracaenas are common), making it a great plant for decorating and filling up space. It also removes toxins including xylene, trichloroethylene and formaldehyde from the air. Grows best in sunlight.
10. Golden PothosThe Golden Pothos makes the NASA list for its ability to clear formaldehyde from the air. Try adding it to your kitchen or living room as a hanging plant, as the leaves will grow down in cascading vines. They grow easily in cool temperatures will low levels of sunlight.
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I also found this:
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Top three oxygen producing plants:
#1 Sprouts!: If you grow your own sprouts for food (especially sweet pea sprouts, buckwheat sprouts and sunflower sprouts) you will have a fantastic mini greenhouse effect in your living space. You also get supplemental oxygen orally by eating raw, living greens!
#2 Snake Plant a.k.a. Mother-In-Law’s Tongue: Of all the different oxygen producing plants, this one is unique since it converts a lot of CO2 (carbon dioxide) to O2 (oxygen) at night, making it ideal to have several in your bedroom. 6-8 waist high plants are needed per person to survive if there is no air flow (meaning you could live in a completely air sealed room if you had these plants and the Areca Palms present). The snake plant also removes formaldehyde from the air. #3 Areca Palm: This plant removes xylene and toluene from the air, but also happens to convert a lot of CO2 (carbon dioxide) to O2 (oxygen) during the daytime. Having four (shoulder high plants) of these per person in your household provides enough oxygen to survive on during daylight hours! They need to have dust and grime wiped off of their leaves once a week, or as often as daily if you live in a city with very bad air quality such as Delhi. Top three air cleaning plants:
#1 Madagascar Dragon Tree a.k.a. Red Edged Dracaena: As a popular house plant that needs little attention, it best removes benzene, formaldehyde, xylene and toluene from the air. It cannot tolerate direct sunlight yet it does well in fairly well indirectly lit areas. It is more susceptible to becoming damaged from over watering than infrequent watering. #2 Warneck Dracaena: One of the most popular clean air plants, this one removes benzene, trichloroethylene, xylene and toluene from the air. #3 Peace Lily: This species (of which there are a variety of sub-species) thrives best in the shade and with only roughly one watering per week (must be chlorine free water) but never let the soil completely dry out. This easy to take care of house plant removes benzene, formaldehyde, acetone, amonia and trichloroethylene from the air. It also periodically flowers!
The NASA clean air study recommended 15-18 good sized oxygen producing plants and air cleaning plants for an 1,800 square foot house. Of course that would be an average and you should take into account various factors to decide whether you require more clean air plants than this. According to Kamal Meattle during his TED talk, he recommends at least 10 plants (a variety of night and day oxygen producing plants as well as air purifying plants) per person if the environment is in a city with very poor air quality. Of course, it's best to start with just a few oxygen producing plants in your home and increasing the number.
When detoxing your body, approximately 70% of it occurs through breathing, 20% through perspiration, 8% through urination and 2% through the bowels. I hope you can now understand the utmost importance of having clean air in your home! You will really begin to feel the benefits of these air purifying plants when you engage in diaphragmatic breathing exercises on a regular basis. In a stuffy, poorly ventilated building, people generally breath improperly because the air is so toxic. When the air is vibrant and full of life-force energy, you naturally want to take big deep breaths all the time.Another useful addition to these clean air plants is to have several room air purifiers that are also negative ion generators. This will create a micro climate in your home that rivals that of even some natural settings! Once optimal air quality in your home is reached, you will be shocked at how suffocating the air is in most buildings and homes, especially during colder months when no one has their windows open. Encourage others to take up this practice (people who visit you often will) and help society get back in touch with the life promoting, natural world
Thank you for all the thoughts!!!
- i'm not worried about exhaust, i am choosing a place to live that will be upwind from most car traffic
- cost is not a factor.... that's how important this is to my health
- i've tried the exhaust fan method.....with windows close and a/c on, and it doesnt lower the Co2 that much (the Co2 still is in the 600s)
But i like your plant angle. I will have to look into this a lot more. It gets tricky because i think most plants emit Co2 at night. I will have to test this out and see if it helps.
Thank you!!!
- i've tried the exhaust fan method.....with windows close and a/c on, and it doesnt lower the Co2 that much (the Co2 still is in the 600s)
Right, but have you tried plants plus occasional exhaust fan? Since the space will be only 300sqft, which is much smaller than I was thinking, the costs shouldn't be so much though. I was thinking a full apartment size, which could easily have cost several hundred dollars a month in electricity if not more if it was a large apt. Still, if you're worried about electronics, using the circulation a little less and relying on plants for a portion of it might help limit damage.
Now that I looked into these plants, I am thinking about getting some of these species myself!
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