How "progressive" is the state of Maryland? (Baltimore: home, cabinet)

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by bufflove

...yes, I already noted the influence of redistricting in Congressional elections. As far as I can tell, you didn't refute my initial sentence (which you bolded) regarding the election of state officials.

Of course redistricting of congressional districts plays a role in a couple of elections every 10 years. You point to Bartlett losing in 2012 because of the 2010 redistricting (which I still don't agree with; Bartlett was DESTROYED, yes, in part because of redistricting, but in much larger part due to anti-incumbent sentiment and Delaney spending $$$$), well, he won the Democratically-held seat in 1992 largely thanks to the 1990 redistricting. Ditto for Morella being elected thanks to the 1990 redistricting which broke MoCo up. That's life. I'm all for impartial redistricting in MD, VA, and beyond, but I don't think it substantially alters the macro-equation of Democrats outnumbering Republicans 2:1 in the state, is all I'm saying.

If gerrymandering (and it's obvious that you didn't look at the map) doesn't play a part in Legislative seats please explain, and it's just Senatorial District 27, why Thomas V. "Mike" Miller who now lives in Calvert County, keeps just enough voters in Prince George's County where he's from, to win elections.
Since the interests of Calvert and Prince George's are in opposition much of the time wouldn't it make more sense to not split representation?

But, of course, it's not gerrymandered.

I enjoyed your "that's life" observation. No, it was dirty politics. If the shoe was on the other foot there would be screaming to high Heaven.

And no, Bartlett didn't lose because of "anti-incumbent sentiment". He lost because the objective was to redistrict him out of existence. They tried to do the same thing to Donna Edwards, mostly because she doesn't play well with others.

Oh, one of Gov. Hogan's initiatives is to institute a non-partisan redistricting panel. We'll wait to see how that plays out.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by Infinite_heights77

Interesting! That is another inquiry!!! Can one be progressive and not a leftist and vice-a-verse? Maybe that is a topic for a whole other discussion topic?! LOL1

Yes, think the USSR. On the left in economic and social equality to the extreme......but personal liberty, forget about it.

A true "progressive" has a bit of a libertarian streak in them about the limits of the police state, the role of the state in private decision making, and privacy rights. Maryland goes leftist on nearly all these issues. Our Court of Appeals routinely upholds expanded search and seizure during Terry stops. Maryland is insanely regulatory about private matters like purchasing cars (it is a huge headache to buy from a private seller in another state,) who you can buy alcohol from (Maryland is a state that props up the "middle man" and ensures their profits in car sales, alcohol sales, etc.) And privacy? Red light cameras, 24-7 surveillance of nearly all major roads (take a look around.......most people have NO idea how many cameras are recording traffic on our interstates.) MOM's promotion of the combining all medical records into a single data base......so like your dentist can find out what your gyno is prescribing you. But, hey, it is to combat drug use (another personal choice) so go take a hike, privacy.

As Buff has mentioned, we are aping some of laws passed by more progressive states on issues like marijuana, and LBTGQ rights, but we aren't leading any "progressive" movements on any of these fronts......we just had a governor looking to ensure his Dem. resume matched up with what others will have on a national level.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

If gerrymandering (and it's obvious that you didn't look at the map) doesn't play a part in Legislative seats please explain, and it's just Senatorial District 27, why Thomas V. "Mike" Miller who now lives in Calvert County, keeps just enough voters in Prince George's County where he's from, to win elections.
Since the interests of Calvert and Prince George's are in opposition much of the time wouldn't it make more sense to not split representation?

But, of course, it's not gerrymandered.

I enjoyed your "that's life" observation. No, it was dirty politics. If the shoe was on the other foot there would be screaming to high Heaven.

And no, Bartlett didn't lose because of "anti-incumbent sentiment". He lost because the objective was to redistrict him out of existence. They tried to do the same thing to Donna Edwards, mostly because she doesn't play well with others.

Oh, one of Gov. Hogan's initiatives is to institute a non-partisan redistricting panel. We'll wait to see how that plays out.

Don't forget this either.

General Assembly: One legislator, one district - Baltimore Sun

Currently, 120 of the 141 delegates are elected from multi-member, at-large districts. Out of those 120, 24 serve districts with two members and 96 serve in districts that elect three delegates, all from the same voters. This includes all of Montgomery County, Prince George's County and Baltimore City, plus a vast majority of Baltimore, Anne Arundel, Charles and Howard counties.

Why do we do this? The practice is left over from the days when political bosses ruled Maryland and a candidate needed their approval in order to get on a "slate" of candidates. Now, the bosses are gone — but the multi-member districts serve the same purpose: They insulate incumbents of both parties from the voters.

Look no further than Montgomery County — a very Democratic county but not overwhelming so, like Baltimore City or Prince George's County. In Montgomery County, there are 21 delegates in seven three-member districts, and every single one of them is a Democrat. In a county of such large size — one that gives at least 30 percent of the vote to the Republicans — you would expect at least one moderate Republican would slip into the delegation.

"Super districts" that stretch over large areas really violate that idea that local people can pick their own representation. The multi-candidate districts are set up to gerrymander areas that would (or at least could) send the GOP candidate to Annapolis into areas with huge majorities of Democrats that will vote straight party for all 3 seats, and thus control the representation for the benefit of the majority party and to the detriment of the minority.

The system is rigged in Maryland so the majority party not only has control, but has super-majorities. Permanent one party rule is a stumbling block to meaningful progress in any state, be it the Dems or the GOP.

[Infinite_heights77]

Great points!

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Yes, think the USSR. On the left in economic and social equality to the extreme......but personal liberty, forget about it.

A true "progressive" has a bit of a libertarian streak in them about the limits of the police state, the role of the state in private decision making, and privacy rights. Maryland goes leftist on nearly all these issues. Our Court of Appeals routinely upholds expanded search and seizure during Terry stops. Maryland is insanely regulatory about private matters like purchasing cars (it is a huge headache to buy from a private seller in another state,) who you can buy alcohol from (Maryland is a state that props up the "middle man" and ensures their profits in car sales, alcohol sales, etc.) And privacy? Red light cameras, 24-7 surveillance of nearly all major roads (take a look around.......most people have NO idea how many cameras are recording traffic on our interstates.) MOM's promotion of the combining all medical records into a single data base......so like your dentist can find out what your gyno is prescribing you. But, hey, it is to combat drug use (another personal choice) so go take a hike, privacy.

As Buff has mentioned, we are aping some of laws passed by more progressive states on issues like marijuana, and LBTGQ rights, but we aren't leading any "progressive" movements on any of these fronts......we just had a governor looking to ensure his Dem. resume matched up with what others will have on a national level.

[CoolZombie]

It's a progressive state but they did elect the fat boy idiot Hogan. Every state has an idiot electorate but leans left or right. Maryland leans left. Like everywhere else, people rely on political ads. Brown wasnt smart enough to point out Hogan would kill the Purple Line and leave the state in gridlock. The trend is Republicans getting elected when Dems act stupid. Joni Ernst in Iowa and Cory Gardner in Colorado won from facing Democrats too dumb to call a spade a spade.

[seanlax]

Originally Posted by CoolZombie

It's a progressive state but they did elect the fat boy idiot Hogan. Every state has an idiot electorate but leans left or right. Maryland leans left. Like everywhere else, people rely on political ads. Brown wasnt smart enough to point out Hogan would kill the Purple Line and leave the state in gridlock. The trend is Republicans getting elected when Dems act stupid. Joni Ernst in Iowa and Cory Gardner in Colorado won from facing Democrats too dumb to call a spade a spade.

You point would have been made better with more articulate language. Hogan is not an idiot (he is smart enough to get elected isn't he?); he probably just has a different perspective than you.

But you make a great point about dems losing recently. There have been some absolutely terrible candidates with democratic establishment support and it has absolutely failed them. Perhaps next cycle they will get behind more intelligent and edgy candidates.

[andrew_s]

So lumping the eastern shore with a small but ultra left secti9n of baltimore and lumping western maryland with an ultra left part of montgomery county isnt gerrymandering? Hell even the leftist media that is the washington post called maryland out for it...

Is this how Maryland

'Gerrymander meander' highlights twisted district - Baltimore Sun

There are more but yeah maryland is one of of not the most gerrymandered states. Easily found on google if you wanted to cure ignorance....

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by andrew_s

So lumping the eastern shore with a small but ultra left secti9n of baltimore and lumping western maryland with an ultra left part of montgomery county isnt gerrymandering? Hell even the leftist media that is the washington post called maryland out for it...

Is this how Maryland

'Gerrymander meander' highlights twisted district - Baltimore Sun

There are more but yeah maryland is one of of not the most gerrymandered states. Easily found on google if you wanted to cure ignorance....

Are you talking to me? Because I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone or something where people can't hear me plainly say that, yes, the congressional districts in MD are gerrymandered, just like they are most everywhere (hence why after the 2010 redistrictings you had Republicans win the House even though the majority of people voted for Democrats - see end of post for the data, if you didn't know that).

What I'm also saying is that pointing to one or two congressional district races doesn't at all debunk my well-supported (and rather obvious) point that there's an overarching, strong Democratic lean in MD. Every single datapoint proves that, whether you look at the voter registration, state elections, or national elections.

Entire House
D%Vote R%Vote D Seats R Seats
50.4% 49.6% 201 234

[seanlax]

Originally Posted by bufflove

Are you talking to me? Because I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone or something where people can't hear me plainly say that, yes, the congressional districts in MD are gerrymandered, just like they are most everywhere (hence why after the 2010 redistrictings you had Republicans win the House even though the majority of people voted for Democrats - see end of post for the data, if you didn't know that).

What I'm also saying is that pointing to one or two congressional district races doesn't at all debunk my well-supported (and rather obvious) point that there's an overarching, strong Democratic lean in MD. Every single datapoint proves that, whether you look at the voter registration, state elections, or national elections.

Entire House
D%Vote R%Vote D Seats R Seats
50.4% 49.6% 201 234

Fine. Then lets de-gerrymander these districts, call it fair and move on.

[DaveinMtAiry]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Remember, George Wallace won the 1972 Democratic primary for President in Maryland.

He was also shot in Maryland and won the primary the next day as he did in Michigan. I always believed they were related.