Beginning to think we might move to ME (Portland, Biddeford: sale, house)

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by flycessna

Forest, good job finding 5 states with an INCOME tax rate higher then Maine’s. My point was that as a PERCENTAGE of income Mainers pay more in TOTAL taxes then the rest of the country. We could argue back and forth but after reading all your posts I don’t think there’s anyway your going to give up your position that Maine’s taxes are lower then they actually are.

Having lived in high taxes areas, and now living in a low tax area; I feel that I must point out the obvious to folks who wish to whine about their low taxes.

... I am very curios though where you live in Maine because ...

I now live in the greater metropolitan city of Argyle, Me.



I once owned a home and lived in Argyle Shire Scotland.

... I am hard pressed to find anywhere around me “Auburn” that it would only cost $47 a year for property taxes on 42 acres of land. I know if its zoned tree growth (?) there is some kind of discounted mill rate or valuation, I am not really sure as I do not know anything about this, but $47 dollars, that’s incredibly low.

Yes, Maine is wonderful.

'Treegrowth' [all each of the many other protected statuses] limit the valuation of land, when it is strictly used that said purpose.

... I think that’s great for you but I certainly do not believe your reflective of the average Maine citizen. My uncle in northern Maine lives in a trailer in the woods and only pays about $600 in property tax and he doesn’t feel that Maine’s taxes are high either.

Is the majority of Maine in the urban cities?

Or is the majority of Maine rural like myself and your uncle?

I believe that the majority of Maine is rural.

... IMO the majority of people coming here are looking at living in or near one of Maine’s more metropolitan areas and are going to need a job, and a decent school system. To me when you add those up and start looking around you’ll find Maine is not the most affordable place to live and your choices depending on how much you can afford are limited. Here are some local mill rates for 2005 per $1000 evaluation

LOL

I have lived in expensive areas.

Nowhere in Maine, [even in Portland] compares to San Diego, or San Fransisco, or Seattle, ...



I was living in Italy, and approaching my retirement. I researched the idea of leaving Italy and returning stateside, and where I should go to enjoy my retirement. What areas of the states would be best for someone living on a fixed pension. What I was able to find in 'retirement' magazines and such, showed that Maine was a good deal.

So far, I have not found those to be in error. A slightly depressed economy is exactly what a pensioner needs.

[Acadianlion]

The mil rate charged by towns is a rate that results from a quite complex actuarial formula. It is based on the comparable property sales value but not just on sales data. Information about the mil rate used under Maine law can be found on the Maine State government pages. And yes, a property in Auburn, which is a city amidst a highly developed portion of the state will be substantially higher than the valuation used for a property located in a place like Argyle, Sherman Station or Eagle Lake. One large reason for this difference in valuation is that in Auburn a typical property owner can expect to have all the services normally expected by those who live in an urban environment. If you live in Argyle you will likely wait a long time before the fire department, sheriff's department and in some cases, the school bus shows up. It is quite possible to live in a pristine area in Maine on a substantial amount of land for very little money both in up-front cost and in ongoing costs as well. But the PRICE of doing that is normally that the individual doing so will need to be much more self-contained than most people are willing or able to be.

I have lived here long enough to remember when Lewiston was a nice, large mill town, and Auburn was just a little hamlet on the outskirts of Lewiston. In those days I lived in Cumberland and often would go through Auburn on my way home from seeing clients above Lewiston. A lot of the roads that I drove down in those days (and nights), are now lined by houses and no longer can be considered "rural" lanes. I think of the Portland megalopilis extending all the way to Lewiston now, and Auburn is merely an extension of that development. To me, Maine left there a long time ago. I guess its called "civilization". For me, and a lot like us, it's not quite what we are looking for out of life.

[Submariner]

Acadianlion -

I agree entirely.

This topic makes it hard for folks to really compare property taxes from any one locale to another.

High assessed values and a low mil-rate, or low assessed values and a high mil-rate; can both come out to the same amount of taxes.

Higher density populations require more services, and in theory there should be more people to pay taxes, thus it should all work out about even.

But it does not.

Now I am telling on myself, but here is yet another monkey wrench in the gears. I have owned MFRs [Multi-Family-Residences], in various areas. And in each area the property taxes were based on the assessed value of the property, not on it's housing capacity. Rental property markets for less than SFRs [Single-Family-Dwellings] and is assessed for less, even though MFRs are a business that earn an income and MFRs account for lots of families.

High density populations tend to have lots of apartment buildings and complexes. If your building houses twenty families, those twenty families will half fill a school bus each morning. You need to name the building, as LEO will be making repeated trips to it, and a street number no longer works, they always become known by a 'name', so your better off giving it a name which has a positive sound to it.

An old run-down mill warehouse, that is converted into a furniture recovering shop and maybe a hobby store, for example: will use very little city services. Seldom do LEO need to go to it, the same with fire departments, ambulances, and school bus routes.

But side by side to the assessor's POV, both buildings may have the same assessed value, so both are applied to the same mill-rate and both would then pay the same property taxes.

Now in one town that we still have a MFR in they do require a fee to be paid per apartment, so you could say that it was to even it all out. It was $30 fee for a CO permit. It was only required every three years. And the housing authority, maintained no listing of who had them. So when your three years ran out, nobody knows. And nobody can tell if you have a current CO, unless the land-lord carries it in his pocket and produces it.

I do think that towns and cities would be better financed if EVERY inhabited dwelling paid property taxes, based on the fact that it is a dwelling. Basing everything on assessed value effectively hides dozens of dwellings in each MFR. And each dwelling is a drain on public services.

I now step down off my soap-box.

[Acadianlion]

A while ago I attended a meeting of the selectmen of our town in which an extension to the fire house/town office was being considered. The fire department is entirely volunteer here and the extension to the fire house was not an option because a new fire truck was being added which would be too wide for the existing building. Many areas were open to discussion, including enlarging the existing building as well as starting development of a new satellite station.

The town has developed a small but successful business park. One of the selectmen made the comment that the enlargement of the fire department with the new equipment and the necessary capital expenditure to enlarge the firehouse was needed because, he supposed, there could be a need to provide fire protection to the business park. He said, "...and I suppose we HAVE to protect that," as though it was a burden and not a benefit to the town.

He completely missed the point of responsible community development and planning as it impacts the tax rate. New subdivisions are being permitted to small towns throughout rural Maine. A very large percentage of such subdivisions represent the very worst aspects of urban "sprawl", and in far too many cases such developments simply cannot be afforded by the town.

Many people will be shocked at the thought that a town cannot provide new places for people to live, but the simple economics is that if an average family has 2.3 children, and the average homeowner pays $1800 per year in residential property taxes, most communities cannot afford ONE new private residence so long as the cost of educating children is paid for by property taxes. It costs over $4,000 per year to educate a child in the public school.

The challenge lying before every town and city in Maine, is to find new ways to develop non-residential property tax revenue without radically increasing demand for tax funded support services. Thus a big box store in a community may not be a bad thing from a tax standpoint, because it may well add $100,000 of property tax revenue to the town, without adding ONE single child to the school system. I am not in favor of big box retail developments, but there is at least one argument in favor of them and that is the property tax revenue that they generate.

[mmpottlehill]

what about Gray/Windham? Close to Portland, still countryish in feeling if you want to be outta the way, inland and so possibly not as expensive as the coast (unless you're looking for that typical "maine" experience of living on the water, at which point i'd have to assume you make far more money than the majority of mainers!)

[cullinane-scotti]

[quote=MemoMaine;312801]We would be relocating from MA. We'd like to stay in the southern/mid region...

Hi. Had same thought about 10 years ago. Job market wasn't good. Purchased piece of land and built over time. Had to do growth permits, septic sites, etc. Had to get search for well water done. Wells can be expensive if you live high on a hill and its a ways to bedrock?? Be sure to get water tested. Result...over time..house is paid for and taxes run about 1K a year. You didn't say you were interested in building. But if husband has no job..and you can do this over time..might be good time to get buildable land without going into too much debt. My thought was to have house in Maine and rent in Ma when I needed. If house is built over time and paid for, you can afford a small rental in Ma and it may still be cost effective, particulary if you are commuting between Boston and Shapleigh. From Northern Mass it takes about 1:45 to get there. If that doesn't appeal to you, - I use the train to work from both No. Ma and also from Maine to Boston. I can take a commuter rail into Boston and downeaster out..and get a ride to the house. That is convenient. this does not rule out working locally but it might be a good idea to have a 3 state access for employment.


There are other towns that are closer to Portland, however, further away from Boston jobwise. I chose Shapleigh because even though I would have a commute...Downeaster train. from time to time..I leave about 630ish in a.m. I am in work by 8:45. Nap. Breakdown is as follows: About 1 hr. Portsmouth, NH, 45 min or so to Ogunquit, 45 min. Conway NH and skiing about 45 min. Portland down route 4 to route 5 Saco, etc. About 10 miles to Sanford. (Give or take added time in winter). Good about plowing. House taxes on small house with land run about 1K.

If you thought about building over time like I did..and had an RV, you could put RV in Salisbury and it's half way up from North Shore to Shapleigh. Use that as an alternate place to crash if commuting into Boston from time to time and get a vacation out of it. So if someone is working in Boston, and other person with kids can come down at RV park..there you are. Just an idea. Meet a few times a week if you work in Boston or 128.

Sanford is handy. Every town has its ups and downs. Their taxes are higher but they are on sewarage. I have grown accustomed to driving 10 miles for bread and milk as part of a trade-off for being rural. However, there are a lot of new Dept. Stores and new mall about 20m away. Guests come up from North Shore with me via the ocean route and in evening we retire to quiet deck under stairs. I would think where jobs are tough, you might want to think about your approach to homeownership cautiously. I was out of work when I started building with a tiny retirement acct. since income dropped, so didn't tax penalty. I like the option of having 3 states to choose from for work with a back up plan if I have to go to Ma. So that's why I mentioned it this. Read a lot of Mother Earth News..learned a lot about being a contractor. I do like having the downeaster train in Wells. Shapleigh to Wells About 45 min. with a Dunkins coffee. Contact me with questions. Shapleigh was a surprise to me. It turned out to be a very pleasant place to live and also not to far for me to commute. I think not too far is up to 2 hrs one way if necessary. With RV in Salisbury it would be 1 plus hr Boston to Salisbury and about that or less to Shapleigh.

I was amazed at just how much property went up in value and is now dropping a bit due to market but still...the house next to mine on the north shore in MA runs for a 2 bedroom 275K with 4,000 sq. ft. land. Taxes are more than double the north shore, MA. Alfred, ME looks to be a nice town but perhaps more expensive? There are a few town beaches around. Route 4 going up to Shapleigh is a nice ride mostly 50 mph. Good snow plowing. Massabesic High School off Ross Corner Rd. appears to be a good school not to far. They have good sports program. Good adult ed. Many retires up there from MA and Mainers with good common sense. Basically helpful. quiet life but access to everything (with a car). town beach. Population does swell in summer but not like being east of 95 with constant traffic. I should be asking you questions before spouting off but I am on a time constraint...and thought I might extend this info should you entertain this type of idea. If you do reply, ask away. cs

[cullinane-scotti]

Originally Posted by MemoMaine

Well, the main reason is we want to move away from our busy area. We would like trees, land etc. We don't want to move too far north (is what we are thinking right now) so that our family can still visit. My husband has applied for a couple of jobs in Portland....everything, of course would depend on him getting a job. We are just talking/thinking/investigating now and are at least a year out of actually making a move if we do. We've got relatives in Ellsworth, but don't want to be that far north.

..

[corgis]

You do realize this thread is almost 2 years old - the original poster only posted 3 times in 2007.

[AustinB]

Originally Posted by corgis

You do realize this thread is almost 2 years old - the original poster only posted 3 times in 2007.

Aw comon.. they had fun responding. It took a lot of time to type out all of that. Well, it does for me with the pick and poke method.

Maybe, another thread could go bye bye.

[Casper1212]

The property taxes here are at their ceiling. And yet, the property values are worse than bad. We have a nice house, and several people have been out to see it and expressed a desire to buy it. But it will not appraise for what we owe on it because the property values here are so bad. If it were fifty miles up the road, where they have inflated the property values, we could ask twice as much and it would still be a bargain.