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Old 10-01-2023, 11:10 AM
 
427 posts, read 155,038 times
Reputation: 1180

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota500 View Post
You are very naive. Did you check out the price per kwh, and also realize that does not include the added tax? Most of the items in your home can not be limited to use after midnight till five in the morning. The price per kwh during peak and "slightly" off peak hours is disastrous and using electric in the wee hours does not ameliorate the high cost. You mention shaving "pennies off". Those pennies are nothing compared to what people are going to be hit with.
Credited. Imagine living in a world where you still expect that our government/government adjacent is trying to do anything other than screw us over. Must be nice there, can I come visit? I promise not to throw the drinking fountain out the window.
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Old 10-04-2023, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Commack, NY
246 posts, read 430,687 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by under a mountain View Post
While you're at it, contact your local politicians and tell them you want to lift the ban on fracking in NY, pursue nuclear power and get the USA back to energy independence.

Just to be clear - the US has never been energy independent.
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Old 10-04-2023, 03:33 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,172 posts, read 13,253,306 times
Reputation: 10144
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Originally Posted by Player01 View Post
Just to be clear - the US has never been energy independent.
Really? I thought the USA used to export oil (like during WW2 and before at least) and coal as well.
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Old 10-04-2023, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Commack, NY
246 posts, read 430,687 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Really? I thought the USA used to export oil (like during WW2 and before at least) and coal as well.

The USA has and continues to export plenty of oil. Perhaps "never" was a bit of an exaggeration, though. I only mean to point out that we haven't been energy independent at all in recent years (say, the last 50-70). People that want to "get back to energy independence" are usually inferring this was something that was accomplished in recent years. It was not.
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Old 10-04-2023, 04:56 PM
 
31,910 posts, read 26,989,302 times
Reputation: 24816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Player01 View Post
Just to be clear - the US has never been energy independent.
See: https://usafacts.org/articles/is-the...y-independent/

and: https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL2N2VQ2ZV

also: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...over-70-years/
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Old 10-04-2023, 05:17 PM
 
31,910 posts, read 26,989,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player01 View Post
The USA has and continues to export plenty of oil. Perhaps "never" was a bit of an exaggeration, though. I only mean to point out that we haven't been energy independent at all in recent years (say, the last 50-70). People that want to "get back to energy independence" are usually inferring this was something that was accomplished in recent years. It was not.
See links posted in previous post...

US government banned crude oil export in 1970's in consequence of oil shortages. That was repealed during Obama administration and it's been off to races ever since. Large amount of oil and natural gas exported by USA would not have been possible were not for excess supply created by fracking and horizontal drilling.

United States like many other countries in Europe and else where was largely energy independent when fuel was from solid sources such as coal, timber, peat and so on.

USA was still largely energy independent when oil was discovered here and soon nationwide there were wells pumping crude out of the ground. However early on this period overlapped with coal still largely being king. There was also far fewer things that ran on oil/petroleum/gas. Remember in USA as else where the industrial revolution of 1800's into early 1900's was powered by steam. That energy source was largely produced by burning coal or wood. In turn steam powered everything from ships, locomotives and large heavy equipment (among other things) down to heating buildings and residences among other things.

Years after WWI and certainly through and post WWII saw switch from coal to oil or natural gas for steam production. Navies, ocean liners, locomotives, home heating, etc... all moved away to oil or gas for a host of reasons. This increased consumption is when USA began to lose it's "energy independence".

Quite simply post war years onwards demand for oil/petroleum products began to outstrip domestic production. Worse US economy and people grew used to relatively cheap gas and oil. Keep in mind oil/petroleum products are not just for burning in engines, motors, heat source, etc.... But also are feedstock for a host of modern chemicals and substances including types of plastics.

United States like UK, Germany and many other countries could easily gain more energy independence by returning to large scale use of coal of which they have huge untapped stocks. That of course is not going to happen in today's woke world so......
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Old 10-04-2023, 05:44 PM
 
31,910 posts, read 26,989,302 times
Reputation: 24816
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Really? I thought the USA used to export oil (like during WW2 and before at least) and coal as well.
Before Powder River Basin and other sources of coal out west came into existence it was the coal fields of Appalachia that made fortunes and drove huge parts of local and US economy. Wyoming, West Virginia, Kentucky, Illinois, and Pennsylvania were some of the richest coal fields and produced high quality hard and soft coal. One huge reason New Jersey, Pennsylvania and other states in area had so many and extensive railroads was to move coal from mines to markets and or ports for export.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_m..._United_States

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...lachia/474603/

As with oil types of coal vary by source. Areas mentioned had coal mines that produced rich high quality bituminous coal (aka "steam" or "thermal" coal" and to an extent "hard coal". As such demand was great not just within internal US market but for export as well. Remember from industrial revolution onto and through WWI world's navies, shipping, and railroads all ran on steam. Quality of coal burned to produce said gas had huge effects on everything from type of boiler design to how well and economically a ship or locomotive ran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Ranks

Another country known for high quality steam coal was and still is UK. Welsh coal was also exported world wide to meet demand and was highly sought after by navies, shipping and railroads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_industry_in_Wales

USA still imports oil from Middle East and elsewhere because type found from those sources suits specific purposes. Very long story short there are a few types of oil with crude and shale top two. USA's crude oil supplies are limited compared to Middle East and Africa who have 70% of known reserves. Nearly all of the recent boom in oil from USA is shale type due to fracking.

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopener...%20shale%20oil.
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Old 10-05-2023, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Commack, NY
246 posts, read 430,687 times
Reputation: 153
Not sure who has time to read the 30 articles you linked to but the point is, we export oil and that's not going to stop. People throw around the word "energy independent" as if we were somehow in a bubble just sustaining ourselves with our own energy. This was not the case. If you want to say we were a net exporter of energy, then say that.



And getting away from coal is "woke"? Jesus.
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