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For the record, most public employees are covered by the state Employees Retirement System (ERS) which the state controls. Blame the legislators for their pensions. Many are not fully funded, or so a friend tells me ( she is an aide in a school and a secretary tells me the same. )
I do not know about Fire and Police, so I can't speak to them.
Teachers are under the NYSTRS, which IS fully funded and run by its own Board. The state does not control it; the NYSTRS Board controls it and our pensions (NYC used to do their own, only they somehow got into ours -- and skewed the way pensions for teachers as look much higher than the state average really is)
All of those pensions get lumped together when people state that they are "state employee pensions". Not true.
Don't kid yourself; most teachers in the rest of the state make nothing near what the LI and NYC makes. plus, you need connections to get those jobs which bump the FAS up... at least here, anyway.
Tiers III, IV, and V make substantially less and also have to retire later. I do knot know of more than 5-6 Tier I ( pre - 6/30/1973) teachers still working.
Maybe your teachers' union didn't fetch you "enough" cold, hard cash, but having elective cosmetic surgery covered in the bennies was a nice perk, eh?
Teachers Spent $9M On Cosmetic Surgery in 2009 (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_york_state/NY-TeachersCosmetic-Surgery-20101028-apx - broken link)
Quote:
Published : Thursday, 28 Oct 2010, 12:19 PM EDT
BUFFALO, N.Y. - The state-appointed authority overseeing Buffalo public school finances says taxpayer-covered cosmetic surgery rung up by the city's teachers totaled nearly $9 million in 2009.
The Buffalo Fiscal Stability Authority reports that last year's costs for such elective procedures as chemical peels and other skin treatments are up $8 million over the 2004 tab for cosmetic surgery provided under the teachers' union contract.
School district officials say teachers or their dependents accounted for 90 percent of the approximately 500 people who received cosmetic surgery last year. About 10,000 district employees are eligible for the benefit.
The president of the teachers' union says the union has agreed to give up the benefit in the next contract.
Note once they're caught red-handed, the weasels easily "agree" to give it up in the next contract ...
I'm sure the 500 people who had $9 million paid for them in cosmetic surgery are laughing all the way to the bank!
Details of what Buffalo teachers had covered in their "health" insurance benefits in cosmetic surgery found here:
90% of the procedures were chemical peels, skin rejuvenation, laser hair removal and other skin treatments. This spending is taking place against the backdrop of unprecedented budget deficits the School Board still hasn't determined how it can solve.
The Chief Financial Officer for the district indicated most of the $9M in cosmetic procedure spending was focused on 500 employees - using a simple calculator, that tells us taxpayers spent approximately $18,000 on elective cosmetic surgery for each of 500 teachers. Interestingly, most of the spending has gone to 8 local plastic surgeons.
Sounds like there's 8 union-connected plastic surgeons raking in all the dough too. But correct me if I'm wrong and Buffalo is so small it has barely any plastic surgeons and that's truly a coincidence.
Last edited by I_Love_LI_but; 01-07-2011 at 08:18 PM..
Reason: Peeled the onion and found a little more ...
Maybe your teachers' union didn't fetch you "enough" cold, hard cash, but having elective cosmetic surgery covered in the bennies was a nice perk, eh?
Teachers Spent $9M On Cosmetic Surgery in 2009 (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_york_state/NY-TeachersCosmetic-Surgery-20101028-apx - broken link)
Note once they're caught red-handed, the weasels easily "agree" to give it up in the next contract ...
For starters, we are not weasels.
That went on for years and the Board knew it, they gave us that insurance option.... this is a ploy to negotiate it out so they can go to single payer health care - which they cannot do it unless they actually negotiate a contract and the Board doesn't want to as it will cost them money in things like salary in exchange. There has been no contract in over 6 years... Holler about it enough and the issue looks like every teacher uses it. Some people do use it. I didn't, nor did my husband.
The problem is people who had MDs who would say their facelifts ( etc.) were "necessary". They makes everyone look bad. I don't think that type of use should now (nor ever should have been) covered.
However, I do know a teacher whose son was severely burned who did use this. I know another who lost a muscle in the leg and needed reconstructive surgery. I also know people with cancer who had reconstructive surgery. I think it should be used for NECESSARY things. That is, IMHO, a reasonable use.
Options like HMOs covered many things my insurance did not; mine was better for many actual really needed services ( which is why we kept it all our careers). Those of us who took traditional healthcare for years never had podiatrists covered (among other things) unless you were diabetic and we don't have dental or optometry (only some opthomologists when you have an eye condition which mandates an MD care for it, like cataracts). The city forced us into a single payer which was against contract; and they had to go back to the choices ( court decision on illegal contract changes) .
The Board needs to negotiate a contract. This is simply to make everyone look bad.
Want to bet the LI and NYC teachers have the same riders?
Teachers don't dream about the automatic pay raises, a guaranteed financial future? Yeah, right.
If teachers aren't in it for the money, then they're in it for the tenure, guaranteed salary increases, healthcare benefits, enormously long vacations - especially the summer - and their huge pensions the teachers unions have guaranteed them. The gravy train. Jackpot. Same as hitting the lottery when you have a Long Island public school teaching job.
And it certainly amazes me when they yell very loudly over teacher layoffs when they occur - the vast majority need a reality check - most of them exist in their protected teacher bubble.
Teachers don't have to save toward their futures at all (I dare anyone to point out a teacher who does save money toward their retirement) because they're counting on the rest of us to support them - they're so special - they can spend freely and do without having to give a care to their financial futures. I have 4 teacher "friends" who like to rub that in my face. Real nice. They live up to every penny splurging on almost anything they can think of (trips to Europe for a month every summer on a teacher's salary! who would have thought they would be making that kind of money?) knowing they'll always be financially secure for the rest of their lives. For The Rest Of Their Lives! How many of you out there can claim that?
Teachers know they'll have an extremely comfortable retirement, and no healthcare worries at all. All on the real estate taxpayers dime. My dime - oops, not 10 cents - in reality this year it's $8100+ of our after tax money donated to the poor, overworked, totally unselfish teachers who aren't in it for the money. There sure is a lot I could do with that $8100+ like save it towards our own retirement. Now there's a novel thought. Putting it away for our own retirement. If I had a genuine choice it would be to not give it to anyone, especially the wealthy, job-secure teachers. And if I was forced to make a choice if I couldn't keep that money, I'd donate it to the homeless, certainly not to the teachers who are part of the wealthy upper middle class of LI.
That school tax makes up 2/3 of our real estate tax bill this year - as it does every year. We will definitely be moving off LI in the next few years if things don't improve in that direction. Being robbed and doing without and having our after-tax money that we work hard for taken from us and given to teachers is sickening. The gluttonous teachers' union ought to be outlawed. None of the teachers are good enough to deserve their windfall pensions when they retire, and most of them deserve around half of their current weekly paychecks. A pension of $20,000/year is probably about where it really ought to be, if they even deserve that at all. They only get their pension because of their union. If there was no union, they'd get what the rest of us get - nothing. In which case our taxes would be significantly lower than they are now.
In the old days unions were necessary because of unfair and brutal labor practices. They made sense back then. And teachers were underpaid 30 years ago. That is very true. Then they caught up, and now teacher compensation is grossly overblown to the point of indecency. The gluttony a great majority of us are paying for dearly doesn't make sense at all.
A couple of working teachers I know actually believe that corporate America pays as much as if not more than LI teacher salaries. They truly believe that and have told me that they were thinking of quitting their teaching jobs because they could make so much more working in corporate NYC. I wish they would quit and have to deal with reality.
Regarding the very high police salaries, well, I think because the number is nowhere near as high on our tax bill as the teachers' tax bite takes out of our bank account, it doesn't bother me as much. It was "only" $1450 give or take this year. Chump change compared to $8100.
So, when does the teacher union salary/benefits/pension pyramid scheme end? Do their compensatory packages just keep increasing exponentially until the vast majority of us can't pay our real estate taxes anymore? Then what?
Perhaps we should all move off Long Island and completely out of NY State. Hypothetically if that ever happened, how would the poor teachers collect their pensions and salaries? There wouldn't be any people to bleed. Or maybe we all should just not pay our taxes. What are they going to do, throw everyone in jail? There wouldn't be enough room. Perhaps it really is time for a tax revolt.
Teachers don't dream about the automatic pay raises, a guaranteed financial future? Yeah, right.
If teachers aren't in it for the money, then they're in it for the tenure, guaranteed salary increases, healthcare benefits, enormously long vacations - especially the summer - and their huge pensions the teachers unions have guaranteed them. The gravy train. Jackpot. Same as hitting the lottery when you have a Long Island public school teaching job.
And it certainly amazes me when they yell very loudly over teacher layoffs when they occur - the vast majority need a reality check - most of them exist in their protected teacher bubble.
Teachers don't have to save toward their futures at all (I dare anyone to point out a teacher who does save money toward their retirement) because they're counting on the rest of us to support them - they're so special - they can spend freely and do without having to give a care to their financial futures. I have 4 teacher "friends" who like to rub that in my face. Real nice. They live up to every penny splurging on almost anything they can think of (trips to Europe for a month every summer on a teacher's salary! who would have thought they would be making that kind of money?) knowing they'll always be financially secure for the rest of their lives. For The Rest Of Their Lives! How many of you out there can claim that?
Teachers know they'll have an extremely comfortable retirement, and no healthcare worries at all. All on the real estate taxpayers dime. My dime - oops, not 10 cents - in reality this year it's $8100+ of our after tax money donated to the poor, overworked, totally unselfish teachers who aren't in it for the money. There sure is a lot I could do with that $8100+ like save it towards our own retirement. Now there's a novel thought. Putting it away for our own retirement. If I had a genuine choice it would be to not give it to anyone, especially the wealthy, job-secure teachers. And if I was forced to make a choice if I couldn't keep that money, I'd donate it to the homeless, certainly not to the teachers who are part of the wealthy upper middle class of LI.
That school tax makes up 2/3 of our real estate tax bill this year - as it does every year. We will definitely be moving off LI in the next few years if things don't improve in that direction. Being robbed and doing without and having our after-tax money that we work hard for taken from us and given to teachers is sickening. The gluttonous teachers' union ought to be outlawed. None of the teachers are good enough to deserve their windfall pensions when they retire, and most of them deserve around half of their current weekly paychecks. A pension of $20,000/year is probably about where it really ought to be, if they even deserve that at all. They only get their pension because of their union. If there was no union, they'd get what the rest of us get - nothing. In which case our taxes would be significantly lower than they are now.
In the old days unions were necessary because of unfair and brutal labor practices. They made sense back then. And teachers were underpaid 30 years ago. That is very true. Then they caught up, and now teacher compensation is grossly overblown to the point of indecency. The gluttony a great majority of us are paying for dearly doesn't make sense at all.
A couple of working teachers I know actually believe that corporate America pays as much as if not more than LI teacher salaries. They truly believe that and have told me that they were thinking of quitting their teaching jobs because they could make so much more working in corporate NYC. I wish they would quit and have to deal with reality.
Regarding the very high police salaries, well, I think because the number is nowhere near as high on our tax bill as the teachers' tax bite takes out of our bank account, it doesn't bother me as much. It was "only" $1450 give or take this year. Chump change compared to $8100.
So, when does the teacher union salary/benefits/pension pyramid scheme end? Do their compensatory packages just keep increasing exponentially until the vast majority of us can't pay our real estate taxes anymore? Then what?
Perhaps we should all move off Long Island and completely out of NY State. Hypothetically if that ever happened, how would the poor teachers collect their pensions and salaries? There wouldn't be any people to bleed. Or maybe we all should just not pay our taxes. What are they going to do, throw everyone in jail? There wouldn't be enough room. Perhaps it really is time for a tax revolt.
"Just move along..nothing to see here, don't look behind that blue curtain."
"Its those teachers driving everything up...not the cops, pay no mind"
Moderator cut: language removed Even if ts only 000000.1% of our taxbill.How about we start with the Irish Lottery on LI? I mean its not like were actually winning the war on drugs, DWI or Gangs (but we are winning some pretty elite stuff academically http://www.siemens-foundation.org/en/competition/2010_winners.htm) (http://www.siemens-foundation.org/en/competition/2010_winners.htm%29.I%27m - broken link)
I'm pretty damn sure we could fill those GED jobs for half the pay (75k) .In fact I think we could pack the Coliseum with applicants.
Teachers ...not so much.
If you werent married to the BlueMob Id tell ya that they got ya right where they want you but youve been singing this song and carrying the PBA water for years now.I'm not a fan of Tenure or CS Unions so we do agree there, but just a Quick Fact Check:Teachers are not paid over the summer and most are making sub 90k with a Masters degree while Johnny Laws pulling down 150k+++ dodging drive thrus .
Crooks?
PS Whats the price of a private school these days and how much of that 8500 is linked to the equity of your home/neighborhood?
Last edited by nancy thereader; 01-08-2011 at 11:04 AM..
Im pretty sure we could fill those jobs for half the pay (75k) In fact I think we could pack the Coliseum with applicants.Teachers ...not so much.
An overabundance of NY certified teaching degrees are cranked out every year. It's a known fact that there is a glut of just-graduated NY State teachers out there, many poised waiting to take over some LI teacher sabbatical with the slim hope that the permanent teacher gives up the position, and even a slimmer hope of discovering a semester/temporary substitution job in the first place.
The schools that are graduating these students with teaching degrees are doing a huge disservice to them. Most of these students will never get teaching jobs, there just aren't enough to go around at all, but the colleges would be hurting for funds if they were honest and told the students they have little to no hope of being hired as a LI teacher.
I currently have a 24-year-old relative earning her masters in elementary education with the hope of not getting a job on LI because she already knows there's no chance of that, but trying for a job out of state somewhere in the US to get some experience, and then to come back here when things ease up a bit hoping for a shot at a LI teaching job when the time is right. Hoping to hit that lottery of jobs.
For every 1 opening, school districts here on LI receive as many as 1,000+ resumes. Not exactly difficult to find qualified candidates.
So, actually you could pack 2 Coliseums with teaching degrees cranked out of the degree factories of NY. It's easy to fill a teaching position because of so many applicants. The trick for the teaching applicant for LI is to have an "in" that would give them the edge to be picked out of the multitude vying for the much coveted teaching position.
I wasn't clear: the UNION management is a bunch of weasels. All unions are is BIG BUSINESS out for themselves to get as many members, collect as much dues money as possible, garner as much political power as possible ... they do not belong sticking their noses in government services where they have the taxpayers hostage. They belong in private industry, where the company has to make a profit to give them their demands instead of simply tax everyone more everytime their members need chemical peels. skin rejuvenation, and laser hair removal, for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant
That went on for years and the Board knew it, they gave us that insurance option.... this is a ploy to negotiate it out so they can go to single payer health care - which they cannot do it unless they actually negotiate a contract and the Board doesn't want to as it will cost them money in things like salary in exchange. There has been no contract in over 6 years... Holler about it enough and the issue looks like every teacher uses it. Some people do use it. I didn't, nor did my husband..
Of course the Board knew it. On Long Island, most of the school boards are in collusion with the unions for god-knows-what under the table payoffs, jobs for relatives, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant
The problem is people who had MDs who would say their facelifts ( etc.) were "necessary". They makes everyone look bad. I don't think that type of use should now (nor ever should have been) covered.
The problem is ELECTIVE cosmetic surgery of any type was covered. To wit: chemical peels. skin rejuvenation, and laser hair removal, anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant
However, I do know a teacher whose son was severely burned who did use this. I know another who lost a muscle in the leg and needed reconstructive surgery. I also know people with cancer who had reconstructive surgery. I think it should be used for NECESSARY things. That is, IMHO, a reasonable use.
What part of the term ELECTIVE cosmetic surgery don't you understand? If you're trying to say the people on LI C-D are arguing against medically necessary cosmetic surgery services for those examples, sorry, but you're incorrect. We're not that cruel. We think paying for ELECTIVE cosmetic surgery is a scam though. A huge one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant
The Board needs to negotiate a contract. This is simply to make everyone look bad.
Oh, so it's some kind of lie being told to "make everyone look bad?" Funny, I thought elective cosmetic surgery was used to make people look GOOD! Spare us. The fact that it was even HAPPENING IS bad, not just "looks bad."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant
Want to bet the LI and NYC teachers have the same riders?
You don't want to get me started when it comes to LI! (As for NYC, I can't comment.) What DON'T those pampered darlings of LI have in some districts? A guarantee that "they will be among the three highest paid school districts on LI" ... one teachers' union has that. How's that for PRICE FIXING OF ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENT LABOR? High four-figure payouts if they choose NOT to take health insurance from the school district? Does anyone working a private sector job 12 months a year get paid in cash the cost of their company's health insurance if they go on their spouse's health insurance instead? Don't get me started ... please!
An overabundance of NY certified teaching degrees are cranked out every year. It's a known fact that there is a glut of just-graduated NY State teachers out there, many poised waiting to take over some LI teacher sabbatical with the slim hope that the permanent teacher gives up the position, and even a slimmer hope of discovering a semester/temporary substitution job in the first place.
The schools that are graduating these students with teaching degrees are doing a huge disservice to them. Most of these students will never get teaching jobs, there just aren't enough to go around at all, but the colleges would be hurting for funds if they were honest and told the students they have little to no hope of being hired as a LI teacher.
I currently have a 24-year-old relative earning her masters in elementary education with the hope of not getting a job on LI because she already knows there's no chance of that, but trying for a job out of state somewhere in the US to get some experience, and then to come back here when things ease up a bit hoping for a shot at a LI teaching job when the time is right. Hoping to hit that lottery of jobs.
For every 1 opening, school districts here on LI receive as many as 1,000+ resumes. Not exactly difficult to find qualified candidates.
So, actually you could pack 2 Coliseums with teaching degrees cranked out of the degree factories of NY. It's easy to fill a teaching position because of so many applicants. The trick for the teaching applicant for LI is to have an "in" that would give them the edge to be picked out of the multitude vying for the much coveted teaching position.
Youre right 150k for a Cop with a GED is a very good value for the taxpayers.
Good news those high taxes actually keep the riff raff out sometimes so thank God for those fancypants educators for keeping our streets safe.
As for the Teachers, you articulated the supply/demand problem earlier when you mentioned tenure.The point your missing is that only of those folks has a direct correlation to the the equity of your home..guess who officer?
Let me ask you a question that you wont answer or better yet answer with a question.
Did you pick your neighborhood for its Schools or its Cops?
Andrea, I've been reading these threads a long time, and I don't remember anyone else saying this, at least not on the tail end of a well-written post. And believe me, I've been waiting for it.
I've gotta give you props, because as far as I can tell, a tax revolt is the only thing that will get your point across.
Not voting in one braying fool to replace another.
Not town hall meetings.
Not ranting and raving on a message board, which has accomplished exactly nothing since the inception of City-Data.
Thing is, I don't see where people on Long Island have either the organization or the gumption to actually do it.
Teachers don't dream about the automatic pay raises, a guaranteed financial future? Yeah, right.
If teachers aren't in it for the money, then they're in it for the tenure, guaranteed salary increases, healthcare benefits, enormously long vacations - especially the summer - and their huge pensions the teachers unions have guaranteed them. The gravy train. Jackpot. Same as hitting the lottery when you have a Long Island public school teaching job.
And it certainly amazes me when they yell very loudly over teacher layoffs when they occur - the vast majority need a reality check - most of them exist in their protected teacher bubble.
Teachers don't have to save toward their futures at all (I dare anyone to point out a teacher who does save money toward their retirement) because they're counting on the rest of us to support them - they're so special - they can spend freely and do without having to give a care to their financial futures. I have 4 teacher "friends" who like to rub that in my face. Real nice. They live up to every penny splurging on almost anything they can think of (trips to Europe for a month every summer on a teacher's salary! who would have thought they would be making that kind of money?) knowing they'll always be financially secure for the rest of their lives. For The Rest Of Their Lives! How many of you out there can claim that?
Teachers know they'll have an extremely comfortable retirement, and no healthcare worries at all. All on the real estate taxpayers dime. My dime - oops, not 10 cents - in reality this year it's $8100+ of our after tax money donated to the poor, overworked, totally unselfish teachers who aren't in it for the money. There sure is a lot I could do with that $8100+ like save it towards our own retirement. Now there's a novel thought. Putting it away for our own retirement. If I had a genuine choice it would be to not give it to anyone, especially the wealthy, job-secure teachers. And if I was forced to make a choice if I couldn't keep that money, I'd donate it to the homeless, certainly not to the teachers who are part of the wealthy upper middle class of LI.
That school tax makes up 2/3 of our real estate tax bill this year - as it does every year. We will definitely be moving off LI in the next few years if things don't improve in that direction. Being robbed and doing without and having our after-tax money that we work hard for taken from us and given to teachers is sickening. The gluttonous teachers' union ought to be outlawed. None of the teachers are good enough to deserve their windfall pensions when they retire, and most of them deserve around half of their current weekly paychecks. A pension of $20,000/year is probably about where it really ought to be, if they even deserve that at all. They only get their pension because of their union. If there was no union, they'd get what the rest of us get - nothing. In which case our taxes would be significantly lower than they are now.
In the old days unions were necessary because of unfair and brutal labor practices. They made sense back then. And teachers were underpaid 30 years ago. That is very true. Then they caught up, and now teacher compensation is grossly overblown to the point of indecency. The gluttony a great majority of us are paying for dearly doesn't make sense at all.
A couple of working teachers I know actually believe that corporate America pays as much as if not more than LI teacher salaries. They truly believe that and have told me that they were thinking of quitting their teaching jobs because they could make so much more working in corporate NYC. I wish they would quit and have to deal with reality.
Regarding the very high police salaries, well, I think because the number is nowhere near as high on our tax bill as the teachers' tax bite takes out of our bank account, it doesn't bother me as much. It was "only" $1450 give or take this year. Chump change compared to $8100.
So, when does the teacher union salary/benefits/pension pyramid scheme end? Do their compensatory packages just keep increasing exponentially until the vast majority of us can't pay our real estate taxes anymore? Then what?
Perhaps we should all move off Long Island and completely out of NY State. Hypothetically if that ever happened, how would the poor teachers collect their pensions and salaries? There wouldn't be any people to bleed. Or maybe we all should just not pay our taxes. What are they going to do, throw everyone in jail? There wouldn't be enough room. Perhaps it really is time for a tax revolt.
You're preaching to the choir here!
If we want to make a real impact in fighting high property taxes, we all need to PAY ATTENTION to who is on our local school boards and elect people who will represent the taxpayers for a change instead of "yes" men and women for the teachers' unions and the superintendents and administrators who compensate themselves like rockstars. That's where the power lies.
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Elective Cosmetic Surgery is a Nice Perk Though
