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I am in civil service and I am on the list (i wont tell you who i am though :P).
Pensions are done by 2 things. your position/ civil service rules for your area and your contract with your employer.
Anybody who generally goes get rid of pensions or make them pay has no idea what they are talking about.
My contract with my employer states that i have to pay into my pension. I literally pay half of what goes into my pension.
So people should really look into how it works before bashing pensions.
Now people should be more looking into their local school system. 50 - 75 percent of your taxes are for your school system. Why people blame ny and local government employees is beyond me when its your school system that makes up most of your taxes.
Although I agree with your statement about SDs keep in mind that nothing impacts the resell value on ones home as the quality/lack of quality of ones SD.
I have no issue with Teachers pulling down 100k considering the level of education they need to invest in in order to earn it.The notion that teaching is a PT job is complete BS spun by the PBA in order to keep folks from looking behind the Blue curtain."Its those damn teachers driving everything up...not us. Move along, nothing to see here." I have teachers (and Cops) in the family and when theyre not in front of students they are either preparing or educating themselves to do so.They dont go into teaching for the money and sadly many cops dont go in to protect and serve.Are there bad/lazy tenured teachers and bully unions, yes.Is it improving with greater transparency over the years, I think so.
It offends me GREATLY that someone with a GED can win the Irish Lottery and rob us blind at 150k for a job that can be both filled and performed for 75k.If that same guy pulled down some OT for another 25-50 then God bless but the notion that a Cop should be paid more than the County Executive or some Doctors is just dumb as hell.
Crooks
Last edited by Crookhaven; 01-06-2011 at 03:43 PM..
yikes, I can't believe a neighbor cop, who's 20 years younger, makes more than my dad, who graduated top of his class in grad school for physics/math. Craaaazy!!
Although I agree with your statement about SDs keep in mind that nothing impacts the resell value on ones home as the quality/lack of quality of ones SD.
I have no issue with Teachers pulling down 100k considering the level of education they need to invest in in order to earn it.The notion that teaching is a PT job is complete BS spun by the PBA in order to keep folks from looking behind the Blue curtain."Its those damn teachers driving everything up...not us. Move along, nothing to see here." I have teachers (and Cops) in the family and when theyre not in front of students they are either preparing or educating themselves to do so.They dont go into teaching for the money and sadly many cops dont go in to protect and serve.Are there bad/lazy tenured teachers and bully unions, yes.Is it improving with greater transparency over the years, I think so.
It offends me GREATLY that someone with a GED can win the Irish Lottery and rob us blind at 150k for a job that can be both filled and performed for 75k.If that same guy pulled down some OT for another 25-50 then God bless but the notion that a Cop should be paid more than the County Executive or some Doctors is just dumb as hell.
Crooks
That's an interesting way of looking at it. I know there is some animosity between a few other unions, but enlighten me on this. Where have you seen the PBA push that agenda? Serious question, Crooks.
Also, the part about "Irish lottery" got a few chuckles tonight.
Any opinions? Any input on other civil servants such as teachers, LIRR, fire department pay and pension packages?
It's not just Long Islanders finding aspects of the "public service employment controlled by special interest labor unions" system broken and no longer sustainable ...
Some new governors, most notably Scott Walker of Wisconsin, are even threatening to take away government workers’ right to form unions and bargain contracts.
“We can no longer live in a society where the public employees are the haves and taxpayers who foot the bills are the have-nots,” Mr. Walker, a Republican, said in a speech. “The bottom line is that we are going to look at every legal means we have to try to put that balance more on the side of taxpayers.”
Moderator cut: copyright post a snippet
It seems we are NOT the weirdos out of step with the rest of the country after all ... we're suffering at the forefront of the overtaxed.
Last edited by Keeper; 01-07-2011 at 03:12 PM..
Reason: post a snippet only
Sorry, but I'm not going to be drawn into a debate about this. The original question asked about the pension system and I've provided the facts about how it works. This thread -- like the dozen or so before it -- will quickly degenerate into a tirade against pensions and unions and civil servants led by the usual suspects with their established agendas. And I'm done with that nonsense.
Do you think you could just clarify one thing you mentioned for me before you permanently bow out of these types of threads?
I've never been one to claim "the damn cops are padding O/T their last three years!" because up until now I never had any clue how the pensions are calculated. I appreciate the explanation you gave, but some of it was a little vague....specifically, this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret
In the police department (Nassau County), there are controls in place to ensure that overtime is not abused, especially in the last years of service.
So in addition to the "20% rule" (or whatever percentage it is according to tier) what other protections are in place that would effect the example I gave? Again, please - if I'm explaining this incorrectly, let me know - but is it fair to say that someone could, theoretically, average ~$140k/yr (and no more than that during any three consecutive years of employment) over their first 7/10 years leading up to retirement, then average $200k/yr over the next two, the last year would be maxed out at $240k (assuming 20% tier) and have their pension based off of roughly $213k/yr earnings?
I'm curious as to what the "controls in place" beyond that are. I don't have any opinion on this topic yet, and I'm very open to understanding why this is a fair and practical system. There are enough other things out there to be POed about, I don't need this one too. Is my math wrong? Am I understanding the whole thing completely backwards? Right now I'm completely neutral on it due to lack of information. I couldn't find the website you mentioned in another post, either.....do you have a link to it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981
I am in civil service and I am on the list (i wont tell you who i am though :P).
Pensions are done by 2 things. your position/ civil service rules for your area and your contract with your employer.
Anybody who generally goes get rid of pensions or make them pay has no idea what they are talking about.
My contract with my employer states that i have to pay into my pension. I literally pay half of what goes into my pension.
So people should really look into how it works before bashing pensions.
Now people should be more looking into their local school system. 50 - 75 percent of your taxes are for your school system. Why people blame ny and local government employees is beyond me when its your school system that makes up most of your taxes.
I think most people are primarily concerned with school district taxes, which (as you mention) make up the largest portion of residential taxes by far. No one blames (or at least, no one should blame) local government employees regardless of their compensation - but the legislation that dictates just how costly those school district taxes can be is largely determined at the state level....so I think it's fair that New York gets a lot of the blame. There is relatively little that can be done to get spending under control locally, it's primarily an Albany issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
Most of the anger here is focused on 2 groups of public employees who are very highly compensated, one via property taxes and the other via property taxes and sales/other county taxes.
I don't think people ranting here are that concerned with the person making 55K doing accounting or audit work for the state. They're concerned about the teacher making 100K+ and the cop making 120+, on top of all the benefits and time off they receive.
My anger isn't even focused at that....if there was some way to keep taxes in line and still pay teachers $100k/yr and cops $140k/yr with crazy benefits and pensions and whatever, I would be all for it. I don't care what anyone else makes, I care that the budgets and spending of these municipalities is having an insanely negative impact on Long Island as a whole....we're on an unsustainable path towards obsolescence, the "Doomsday Clock" is ticking. The unfortunate byproduct is that, when you add everything up, there's no way to rectify this situation without having public employees compensated at levels lower than what is currently the norm. That's where the vast majority of the money is going....no ifs, ands or buts about it. If you want to live on a version of Long Island where people give their local school district a little less than $7k a year (on a $300k home) the sad other-side-of-the-coin is that little Johnny's first grade teacher won't be able to take her husband to the dentist on a $10 copayment 15 years after she retires.....or fill in whatever example suits you best.
There is no great mystery to this whole thing. It's not a matter of corruption (yes, that goes on), it's not a matter of too many administrative staff (yes, that is exorbitant too), it's not a matter of "the private sector should pay better" (completely separate issue/ridiculous) - the bottom line is that it costs too much money to pay a minority of our population at the expense of the masses....and the long-term ramifications are a lot worse than anything we've seen thus far.
If you go tyo the seethrough NY site you will see that Rahner had close to the highest total compensation for 2010 at $281,000. The article below is from 2009.
"The flood of new voters in last year's presidential balloting put a half dozen Suffolk elections workers in the county's top 10 overtime earners - including the highest, who made $76,434 in overtime, more than doubling his annual pay to $151,954.
That biggest overtime earner was elections form processor Keith Tuthill, whose annual salary is $74,424. Second was correction officer Glen Rahner, who made $75,653 in overtime, above his $70,768 annual salary plus $9,446 in other pay, totaling $155,913. "
For Tier 5 ERS members, you should not report overtime in excess of $15,000 (subject to a 3 percent annual inflation factor) to the Retirement System or deduct retirement contributions from these payments. You should continue to report all overtime pay for PFRS Tier 5 members.
I guess they do have limits but still a $15,000 increase to the pension calculation is significant, most would die for an increase that size over the life of the pension. Depending on your base that could easily be higher than 15%.
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