No cash bail, coming 01JAN 2023. (Chicago, Cleveland: low income, crime, roughest)

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Igor Blevin

Claimed "any American city". Cited 2 cities. I guess half constitutes "a fraction".

The point is, there are very few Republican cities with high crime.

Well I don't know if you're referring to me but you asked if any American city that is Republican has higher crime rates than Some cities in other countries including Toronto.

I provided you with two examples as per your request. If you compare crime rates of Republican cities in the U.S to say Toronto and Montreal, I think it would be easy to find that the Canadian cities would have lower rates on a proportional basis.

[Igor Blevin]

Originally Posted by fusion2

Well I don't know if you're referring to me but you asked if any American city that is Republican has higher crime rates than Some cities in other countries including Toronto.

I provided you with two examples as per your request. If you compare crime rates of Republican cities in the U.S to say Toronto and Montreal, I think it would be easy to find that the Canadian cities would have lower rates on a proportional basis.

Yes, thank you for showing how few Republican cities have high crime ratest.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Igor Blevin

Yes, thank you for showing how few Republican cities have high crime ratest.

The thing is Toronto has 2.8 million people and Montreal has 1.8 million. There are very few large Republican cities. Most of them I could see were under 500K people. So of course a city of 2.8 million v 200K is not exactly comparable unless you compare them proportionally instead of absolutely

I picked two cities that are among the largest American Republican cities and even with their lower populations, they still had higher homicide rates than Toronto and Montreal. If you drill down to smaller Republican cities, they may have less homicides in absolute terms, but they have a fraction of the population of T.O or Montreal. So proportionally, I think you'd find if you care to compare, that Toronto and Montreal would have lower crime rates than just two cities.

You can investigate to confirm. I think you'll be disappointed if you think that the crime rates of Canadian cities are less than American regardless of if they are democratic or republican.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Igor Blevin

Because it has worked so well everywhere else.

This is sad news. Even woke cities are being pounded by residents who want a return to cash bail and holding more suspects over for trial rather than releasing them to commit more crimes. Illinois is going backwards.

Sad.

I think the devil is in the details bit is pretty spot on. A lot of countries do not have cash bail systems and do fine by it, but it's not how the US has done things so I think going with it is going to involve some growing pains. The question is if we're smart enough to figure out how to do it, because there are some benefits to it but it's also possible to totally bungle it. Do it poorly enough and then you have people wanting to bring back cash bail, but on top of this is the muddying of the waters since a lot of this removal of cash bail was also near to or right before the pandemic which means a lot of other social upheaval as well so the stats on crime might have at least the possibility of coinciding with upticks from things *not* related to cash bail reform. Kind of a **** time all around!

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

I think the devil is in the details bit is pretty spot on. A lot of countries do not have cash bail systems and do fine by it, but it's not how the US has done things so I think going with it is going to involve some growing pains. The question is if we're smart enough to figure out how to do it, because there are some benefits to it but it's also possible to totally bungle it. Do it poorly enough and then you have people wanting to bring back cash bail, but on top of this is the muddying of the waters since a lot of this removal of cash bail was also near to or right before the pandemic which means a lot of other social upheaval as well so the stats on crime might have at least the possibility of coinciding with upticks from things *not* related to cash bail reform. Kind of a **** time all around!

There has to be some rational criteria for keeping a person in jail other than "they can't afford bail". And in a state like California it doesn't require a very serious offense to end up with a very high bail, each county creates it's own bail schedule. Orange County has the highest bail in the state (and probably in the US). The bail amount for domestic violence in Orange County is $50,000. That means you either cough up the entire $50,000 or you pay a bail bondsman $5,000 which is not refundable, even if the charges are dropped the next day.

The bail bond industry in California is drowning in cash, so much that they can kill any bill or referendum that calls for bail reform, in fact they have already done that twice. And who can blame them, the non refundable fee is 10%, but the surety bond actually costs the bail bond agency 1.4% to 1.8% - the remainder of that 10% is pure profit.. such a sweet deal, huh?

[Caglee]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

There has to be some rational criteria for keeping a person in jail other than "they can't afford bail".

Why? Bail is both a guarantee that you will show up to court and not flee the state, as well as a means to keep offenders segregated from society so they can't continue to commit crime. I also don't know why you're discussing California in an Illinois forum, I don't care what California is doing.

This system has worked just fine for hundreds of years. It seems like a certain political party can never just leave things alone.

[ebbe]

No doubt there will be pushback on this within a year or two. One should take into account the criminal record of person. Lots of repeat offenders will be out on the street, committing new crimes.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Caglee

Why? Bail is both a guarantee that you will show up to court and not flee the state, as well as a means to keep offenders segregated from society so they can't continue to commit crime. I also don't know why you're discussing California in an Illinois forum, I don't care what California is doing.

This system has worked just fine for hundreds of years. It seems like a certain political party can never just leave things alone.

So people who can afford bail are perfectly safe and those who can't - they are the ones we need to keep in jail? If this forum is limited to people in Illinois I will be more than happy to not post in it, but I can't find a rule that states that...

[Marv95]

Alot of people(myself included in the past) have no idea what cash bail or bail reform means. Bail reform is for minor offenses or for those who were arrested for not committing a crime. You don't have to rot in jail for possession of weed or some crap and risk getting evicted, losing your jobs or worse. You don't get out on bail reform if you commit crime/violence. Violent thugs can still get out on cash bail depending on the state; they need 10% to pay to their bail bondsmen.

The problem is the judges/DAs/bounty hunters who are not going after those who don't show up for their court dates or keep providing light sentences for violent crimes.

[Cool Arrow]

Originally Posted by Igor Blevin

Yes, thank you for showing how few Republican cities have high crime ratest.

There's hardly any Republican cities to begin with, so it's going to be hard just to identify any. Colorado Springs which has a population of less than 500,000 had 44 homicides. Montreal which has a population of 1.78 million had 37. Sydney Australia had 84 murders but they are 10 times the size of Colorado Springs. Name any Republican city and I'll bet you that any liberal city outside the US is going to have a fraction of the crime.