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From December thru March 761,000 Chinese flew into the U.S. During that time period over 300,000 people flew into the U.S. from just Italy. It was coming at us from all fronts.
Despite Trump shutting down flights as early as he did, the cat was pretty much already out of the bag. The only chance the world had at avoiding this pandemic was when it was first detected, the Chinese would have told the truth and accepted help to keep it localized. Those bastards would rather lie even when the truth would be less damaging.
From December thru March 761,000 Chinese flew into the U.S. During that time period over 300,000 people flew into the U.S. from just Italy. It was coming at us from all fronts.
Despite Trump shutting down flights as early as he did, the cat was pretty much already out of the bag. The only chance the world had at avoiding this pandemic was when it was first detected, the Chinese would have told the truth and accepted help to keep it localized. Those bastards would rather lie even when the truth would be less damaging.
And that is why this whole thing needs to be analyzed with a fine-tooth comb after the dust settles - what mistakes were made, who-knew-what-when (not just Trump and his cabinet, but the Congress, CIA, CDC, etc. as well), and make corrections as needed. Not for a witch-hunt, but a real analysis to find out what was done wrong and fix the shortcomings. Obviously, we can't plan for all contingencies, i.e., there's not enough money to harden the nation's entire electrical grid in case of a solar flare, prepare for a planet-killing asteroid strike, etc.. But isolating a pandemic before it goes worldwide, or at least slow its progression such that it can be intelligently prepared for? I think that is totally do-able.
To the meat of jmgg's post - much like protecting forests from fire by building fire lanes, we need an "early warning system" to be able to shut down international air travel before people start arriving en-masse from places where pandemics begin. I had read that 430,000 Chinese arrived (lower number than jmgg's post, but counts probably vary), and found that incomprehensible. How can a number of foreign nationals, in numbers essentially larger than the number of soldiers in most of the world's countries, simply jump on a plane without proper vetting, notification, etc.? Part of the study needs to compile how many of these international travelers were already infected when they got on the plane, how many ended up in U.S. hospitals (competing for ventilators), who paid their medical costs, and if they went back home after. We appear to have lost control of our country, and to me, that's the most frightening thing about this whole pandemic.
And that is why this whole thing needs to be analyzed with a fine-tooth comb after the dust settles - what mistakes were made, who-knew-what-when (not just Trump and his cabinet, but the Congress, CIA, CDC, etc. as well), and make corrections as needed. Not for a witch-hunt, but a real analysis to find out what was done wrong and fix the shortcomings. Obviously, we can't plan for all contingencies, i.e., there's not enough money to harden the nation's entire electrical grid in case of a solar flare, prepare for a planet-killing asteroid strike, etc.. But isolating a pandemic before it goes worldwide, or at least slow its progression such that it can be intelligently prepared for? I think that is totally do-able.
To the meat of jmgg's post - much like protecting forests from fire by building fire lanes, we need an "early warning system" to be able to shut down international air travel before people start arriving en-masse from places where pandemics begin. I had read that 430,000 Chinese arrived (lower number than jmgg's post, but counts probably vary), and found that incomprehensible. How can a number of foreign nationals, in numbers essentially larger than the number of soldiers in most of the world's countries, simply jump on a plane without proper vetting, notification, etc.? Part of the study needs to compile how many of these international travelers were already infected when they got on the plane, how many ended up in U.S. hospitals (competing for ventilators), who paid their medical costs, and if they went back home after. We appear to have lost control of our country, and to me, that's the most frightening thing about this whole pandemic.
And you think this type of objective analysis will be completed while Trump is still president?
And you think this type of objective analysis will be completed while Trump is still president?
One of my top criticisms of Trump is that he deflects blame and does not take responsibility for mistakes. If an investigation is done by either political party, looking to "make points", it is going to fail. My guess is this was a failure on most every level of our government, in both parties. But the Numero Uno villain? The communist party in China - if our main takeaway from this isn't that they CANNOT be trusted, then we are doomed to repeat. We have been lulled into thinking that China (the leaders, not the people) would be coerced into Good Behavior by the equivalent of "mutually assured destruction" - not in a nuclear sense, but in an economic one due to the common economic risks that both countries share, but this pandemic has convinced me that this thought was a fallacy. China, because of their government, is way closer to an actual "enemy" of the U.S. than it is simply a "competitor". What do Americans think would happen should tensions rise even further? Seinfeld's "No soup for you" would quickly turn into pharmaceuticals instead of soup.
To your point, years ago, I thought a particular magazine (US News and World Report?) did a decent job of compiling "after the fact" summaries of big events without political motivations, not sure if they are still capable of doing that. There HAS to be a think tank or institution in the U.S. who is capable of doing this. If not, we may as go back to 1861 right now and settle things politically once and for all - if this event does not bring us together, then it's time to split into two countries, along political lines. And that's probably just what China is counting on.
One of my top criticisms of Trump is that he deflects blame and does not take responsibility for mistakes. If an investigation is done by either political party, looking to "make points", it is going to fail. My guess is this was a failure on most every level of our government, in both parties. But the Numero Uno villain? The communist party in China - if our main takeaway from this isn't that they CANNOT be trusted, then we are doomed to repeat. We have been lulled into thinking that China (the leaders, not the people) would be coerced into Good Behavior by the equivalent of "mutually assured destruction" - not in a nuclear sense, but in an economic one due to the common economic risks that both countries share, but this pandemic has convinced me that this thought was a fallacy. China, because of their government, is way closer to an actual "enemy" of the U.S. than it is simply a "competitor". What do Americans think would happen should tensions rise even further? Seinfeld's "No soup for you" would quickly turn into pharmaceuticals instead of soup.
To your point, years ago, I thought a particular magazine (US News and World Report?) did a decent job of compiling "after the fact" summaries of big events without political motivations, not sure if they are still capable of doing that. There HAS to be a think tank or institution in the U.S. who is capable of doing this. If not, we may as go back to 1861 right now and settle things politically once and for all - if this event does not bring us together, then it's time to split into two countries, along political lines. And that's probably just what China is counting on.
One would think that something like your bolded sentence exists, but it may not. I wouldn't hold my breath expecting an unbiased study from our university system. They would start with a pre-determined conclusion then put all their efforts towards trying to support it, truth be damned.
What I wish "might" happen is if Trump could be convinced to form a totally bi-partisan task force (1/2 Republicans and 1/2 Democrats) allowing both sides to study this pandemic. This task force should NOT be made up of politicians from congress, but should be made up of people from the public and private sectors. They would report their findings to congress, the executive branch, and the American people. no matter what is discovered. We need actions to avoid this happening again to the extent that it did and for God's sake minimize the politics. Really get something accomplished for a change.
One of my top criticisms of Trump is that he deflects blame and does not take responsibility for mistakes. If an investigation is done by either political party, looking to "make points", it is going to fail. My guess is this was a failure on most every level of our government, in both parties. But the Numero Uno villain? The communist party in China - if our main takeaway from this isn't that they CANNOT be trusted, then we are doomed to repeat. We have been lulled into thinking that China (the leaders, not the people) would be coerced into Good Behavior by the equivalent of "mutually assured destruction" - not in a nuclear sense, but in an economic one due to the common economic risks that both countries share, but this pandemic has convinced me that this thought was a fallacy. China, because of their government, is way closer to an actual "enemy" of the U.S. than it is simply a "competitor". What do Americans think would happen should tensions rise even further? Seinfeld's "No soup for you" would quickly turn into pharmaceuticals instead of soup.
To your point, years ago, I thought a particular magazine (US News and World Report?) did a decent job of compiling "after the fact" summaries of big events without political motivations, not sure if they are still capable of doing that. There HAS to be a think tank or institution in the U.S. who is capable of doing this. If not, we may as go back to 1861 right now and settle things politically once and for all - if this event does not bring us together, then it's time to split into two countries, along political lines. And that's probably just what China is counting on.
China cannot be trusted, neither can Russia or countless other counties that would love to see the demise of the USA. I just long for the days of “the buck stops here” but we won’t be seeing that as long as Trump is president. In fact, we will continue to see the exact opposite of that.
China cannot be trusted, neither can Russia or countless other counties that would love to see the demise of the USA. I just long for the days of “the buck stops here” but we won’t be seeing that as long as Trump is president. In fact, we will continue to see the exact opposite of that.
Part of the problem is, your opinion of Trump echoes mine of Pelosi, Schumer, Clinton, and many, many, others, we both distrust our political leaders, just from different directions. One thing I'd be willing to do, is minimize the power Washington has, the Feds need to concentrate on Federal issues and the States need to concentrate on State issues. But Dems typically HATE that idea, and favor the opposite. You?
We do need to find some common ground on this or just start painting a line down the middle of the country. Jmmg's latest post makes some great suggestions, I can only hope something like this is done. If we're not smarter at this than we have been with most every other crisis that has occurred in the last fifty years, we're all pretty much screwed. We have absolutely GOT to reduce our reliance on China, for starters. I can understand if it no longer makes sense to manufacture everything we use in this country ourselves. But the supply chain HAS to be diversified around the world, with at least part of everything we use made here, so we keep the technology to do so local, and in an emergency it's a matter of ramping up vs. reinventing the wheel. Could you and I simply agree on something like that?
You know one group who got this event correct? The Church of Latter Day Saints. I'm not a member, but have a lot of relatives in Utah who are, so I tend to read any news from that area. One of the things that the Mormons are known for, is "self-sufficiency", one dictate of which is keeping a stockpile of food (six months worth, I believe), on hand at all times, in each household. Another tenet is "service to community", the Church commands every member to be involved in community "good works" on an ongoing basis. Whether or not one believes in the religious aspect of it all, those folks have the social aspects nailed down pretty tight. I'd love to see the statistics on Mormon vs. non-Mormon households when this is over. One of my take-aways from this will be to become a "mini-prepper" going forward. I'm not going to build a bunker, but I'm going to stock at least six months worth of calories (and don't forget the tp). If we all did that, we could have eliminated the panic buying, the unnecessary contact frequent shopping brings, etc. before legal mandates on "social distancing" came through.
Part of the problem is, your opinion of Trump echoes mine of Pelosi, Schumer, Clinton, and many, many, others, we both distrust our political leaders, just from different directions. One thing I'd be willing to do, is minimize the power Washington has, the Feds need to concentrate on Federal issues and the States need to concentrate on State issues. But Dems typically HATE that idea, and favor the opposite. You?
We do need to find some common ground on this or just start painting a line down the middle of the country. Jmmg's latest post makes some great suggestions, I can only hope something like this is done. If we're not smarter at this than we have been with most every other crisis that has occurred in the last fifty years, we're all pretty much screwed. We have absolutely GOT to reduce our reliance on China, for starters. I can understand if it no longer makes sense to manufacture everything we use in this country ourselves. But the supply chain HAS to be diversified around the world, with at least part of everything we use made here, so we keep the technology to do so local, and in an emergency it's a matter of ramping up vs. reinventing the wheel. Could you and I simply agree on something like that?
You know one group who got this event correct? The Church of Latter Day Saints. I'm not a member, but have a lot of relatives in Utah who are, so I tend to read any news from that area. One of the things that the Mormons are known for, is "self-sufficiency", one dictate of which is keeping a stockpile of food (six months worth, I believe), on hand at all times, in each household. Another tenet is "service to community", the Church commands every member to be involved in community "good works" on an ongoing basis. Whether or not one believes in the religious aspect of it all, those folks have the social aspects nailed down pretty tight. I'd love to see the statistics on Mormon vs. non-Mormon households when this is over. One of my take-aways from this will be to become a "mini-prepper" going forward. I'm not going to build a bunker, but I'm going to stock at least six months worth of calories (and don't forget the tp). If we all did that, we could have eliminated the panic buying, the unnecessary contact frequent shopping brings, etc. before legal mandates on "social distancing" came through.
1) If there was ever a crisis where we needed the President to take charge and be a leader, this is it. It’s absolutely ridiculous that every state is doing their own thing in response to this crisis.
2) As much as I would love for everything to be made in the US, this is not nearly as simple as you seem to imply. This is an entirely separate discussion on its own.
3) Many Americans can barely afford food for a week and you expect them to build a 6 month stockpile?
1) If there was ever a crisis where we needed the President to take charge and be a leader, this is it. It’s absolutely ridiculous that every state is doing their own thing in response to this crisis.
2) As much as I would love for everything to be made in the US, this is not nearly as simple as you seem to imply. This is an entirely separate discussion on its own.
3) Many Americans can barely afford food for a week and you expect them to build a 6 month stockpile?
1) Agreed
2) Didn't say that, I want production of essential items to be diversified around the world, not concentrated in one country, which puts us at huge risk - with some "minimal" amount made here
3) Yet I see everyone with a smart phone, legal m-jay, big-screen TV, booze, cigarettes, upscale nails, Air Jordans, etc.. Priorities are upside down in the U.S.. Dried beans and white rice lasts indefinitely if stored properly and is very cheap; maybe long-term food staples are what the Gub'mint should be providing right now instead of cash that will go to extra whacky tobacky for many folks. This disease is attacking people of color disproportionately, and part of the reason is as stated - inferior health care, jobs that cannot be worked from home, etc. - but you'll notice deafening silence on the subject of pre-existing conditions like diabetes, that can traced directly back to poor lifestyle choices, such as obesity. To hype one side of it while being politically correct on the other is dishonesty personified. Bottom line, got a lot of respect for those Mormons for their foresight and practicality. I've been looking for a state to enact my "Escape from New York (but really Illinois)" for some time, Utah has gained points in my mind from this crisis, will re-evaluate after all the data is in.
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