How to solve the pension debt crisis (Chicago: city hall, rent)

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

It's ridiculous in such a supposedly liberal state that we haven't moved forward with a logical legalization and regulation of a natural substance that poses very little harm.

Full disclosure, I do not personally like pot. But I know so many people that use it for recreational and medical reasons while it is illegal it is silly. These are fully functioning productive members of society.

Rauner would veto it (until he can get his cronies involved).

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

Rauner would veto it (until he can get his cronies involved).

That's basically my only problem with Rauner.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

Rauner would veto it (until he can get his cronies involved).

You really need to put down the ol' AFSCME fliers.

If you don't like Ken Griffith and other Rauner backers that are a heckuva lot more successful investing and growing the economy it's one thing to but to call 'em "cronies" is just silly. Turds like Pritzker have no problem chatting up idiots like Blago, that is the standard path for the crooks in Chicago to plot their next idiotic foot in mouth moment...

To suggest that any of the firms that Rauner has been involved would benefit from the goofy sorts of "recreational marijuana" crazes that are popular with stoned losers in California and Colorado shows an utter lack of understanding of how the big money managers like GTCR invest -- the deals they are doing are about as far removed from the sorts of penny ante retail dope plays that stupid investors get excited about as it is impossible for somebody that owns a couple of rental houses or apartments to get involved in a deal for a 100 story highrise unless you consider wiring the place up as part of your day job the same as being a "mezzanine partner" ...

[Liledgy]

You must be on his payroll

[Liledgy]

I wouldn’t know what an afscme flier looks like.

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

It's ridiculous in such a supposedly liberal state that we haven't moved forward with a logical legalization and regulation of a natural substance that poses very little harm.

Full disclosure, I do not personally like pot. But I know so many people that use it for recreational and medical reasons while it is illegal it is silly. These are fully functioning productive members of society.

It's somewhat of an easy fix under the current legislation, add pain and depression to the list of qualifying conditions. These are a "catch-all" means other states have used prior to allowing full recreational use. This satisfies conservatives while allowing almost anyone to pay the state for a card.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Sunbiz1

It's somewhat of an easy fix under the current legislation, add pain and depression to the list of qualifying conditions. These are a "catch-all" means other states have used prior to allowing full recreational use. This satisfies conservatives while allowing almost anyone to pay the state for a card.

Whatever it takes to get the money flowing and stop the waste of law enforcement resources.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Whatever it takes to get the money flowing and stop the waste of law enforcement resources.

I agree that if there are ways to stop wasting money I'd be all for it. Unfortunately the experience in Colorado does not support any such conclusions. If you think about it the fact is cops don't get "paid by the crime" -- the time they spend on duty is 99% a function of simply the staffing level that the municipalities feel comfortable with and if the actual "duties" are spent aiming a radar gun at speeders, blowing a whistle a folks who get out of their car in the "no stopping zone" at O'Hare or ferrying some idiot with a baggie of weed in their pocket to jail when they get pulled over for blowing through a stop sign there really is not any reliable way to cut back on staffing levels from simply telling the stoners "be on your way dude" if they still have to go through the whole "driving under the influence" protocol which is where the vast majority of police interaction happens with drug users...

Of course there are arguments about what sorts of people end up in the prison system, and as far as I know there are just about no idiots who would be so stupid to end up there for running a "moonshine ring" these days so you likely would dramatically shift the in stakes for actual "traffickers" of marijuana, but somehow I think that unless you also apply the same logic to heroin, cocaine, crack, crystal meth, oxycodone, fentanyl, and who the heck knows what else seems unlikely to really shutdown the whole "controlled substance" aspect of the courts and prisons... Unless you are TOTALLY into the whole "I just don't care" big L Libertarian fringe groups.

So does the street crime at least go down? Sadly no. Don't take my word for it, the actual cops in Colorado who were hoping that they could cut their budgets /redirect resources have found this is not happening: https://www.nccpsafety.org/assets/fi...nforcement.pdf

...predicted that the elimination of arrests for marijuana would bring a huge savings for police and the justice system.
To date, these predictions have not been borne out. It is early to tell what effect legalized marijuana will have on crime and public safety overall. Nonetheless, Colorado law enforcement officials have observed some concerning trends in drug use, most notably with youth and young adults. Law enforcement officials also say they are spending increased amounts of time and funds on the challenges of enforcing the new laws surrounding legal marijuana.

The report includes information about the difficulty of tracking the product from both the "two tier" medical and recreational tax structure as well as the increasingly large grey / black market of growers escaping the taxes. Very discouraging from a revenue perspective...

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I agree that if there are ways to stop wasting money I'd be all for it. Unfortunately the experience in Colorado does not support any such conclusions. If you think about it the fact is cops don't get "paid by the crime" -- the time they spend on duty is 99% a function of simply the staffing level that the municipalities feel comfortable with and if the actual "duties" are spent aiming a radar gun at speeders, blowing a whistle a folks who get out of their car in the "no stopping zone" at O'Hare or ferrying some idiot with a baggie of weed in their pocket to jail when they get pulled over for blowing through a stop sign there really is not any reliable way to cut back on staffing levels from simply telling the stoners "be on your way dude" if they still have to go through the whole "driving under the influence" protocol which is where the vast majority of police interaction happens with drug users...

Of course there are arguments about what sorts of people end up in the prison system, and as far as I know there are just about no idiots who would be so stupid to end up there for running a "moonshine ring" these days so you likely would dramatically shift the in stakes for actual "traffickers" of marijuana, but somehow I think that unless you also apply the same logic to heroin, cocaine, crack, crystal meth, oxycodone, fentanyl, and who the heck knows what else seems unlikely to really shutdown the whole "controlled substance" aspect of the courts and prisons... Unless you are TOTALLY into the whole "I just don't care" big L Libertarian fringe groups.

So does the street crime at least go down? Sadly no. Don't take my word for it, the actual cops in Colorado who were hoping that they could cut their budgets /redirect resources have found this is not happening: https://www.nccpsafety.org/assets/fi...nforcement.pdf The report includes information about the difficulty of tracking the product from both the "two tier" medical and recreational tax structure as well as the increasingly large grey / black market of growers escaping the taxes. Very discouraging from a revenue perspective...

Well, I hope you're wrong because legalizing pot is about all Pritzger has promised other than tax increases to fix our budget and pension messes.

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Well, I hope you're wrong because legalizing pot is about all Pritzger has promised other than tax increases to fix our budget and pension messes.

Everything is taxed in this state, they merely find new means of wasting the additional revenue.
I doubt one more will change their ways.

Getting rid of Madigan would be a better solution:

"Don’t look to Madigan to be an agent of change. His obsession is power politics. If only we’d also heard him say he must “do better” to balance the state budget, to solve the public pension crisis he helped create, to help employers and make Illinois a magnet for jobs."

Illinois Democrats, force Michael Madigan's hand - Chicago Tribune