Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Idaho Hate Crime by county, 2007:
Table 13-IDAHO - Hate Crime Statistics 2007 (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/table_13id.htm - broken link)
A local professor's article addressing the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009, which I believe ehs51 was referring to, including an explanation of the irrelevance of the "free speech" argument against it - this is a very good read:
I thought you said "I think comments about your campaign against hate crime legislation belong in the Politics and Controversies Forum"?
Then proceed with your own campaign? You are entitled to your opinion, but the fact is that ehs51 is right on the money about the use of the word "hate" to silence free expression and legitimate debate and I strongly agree that it has no place in law. His comments are relevant in this thread because of the way DESERTRYDER was responded to.
I thought you said "I think comments about your campaign against hate crime legislation belong in the Politics and Controversies Forum"?
Then proceed with your own campaign? You are entitled to your opinion, but the fact is that ehs51 is right on the money about the use of the word "hate" to silence free expression and legitimate debate and I strongly agree that it has no place in law. His comments are relevant in this thread because of the way DESERTRYDER was responded to.
I brought the thread back to Idaho, referencing the ISP, the FBI re Idaho, a local debate on the subject, Idaho's status re hate crime legislation, and my own opinion as a resident voting taxpayer. I stand by my statements and the questions I raised. I don't need to "campaign," Idaho's laws on the subject are a matter of record. Seems others would seek to move here and campaign against those laws
Furthermore, DR was not responded to in a hostile manner, he is a well respected participant here, and many look forward to him realising his dream of moving here, myself included.
Perhaps ehs51 or CrownVic can point us to the exact legislation to which they refer, which specifically bans "Hate Speech" in Idaho, excepting Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 where it bears on employers being held criminally liable for tolerating a pattern of hate speech creating a hostile environment for others, cases of defamation, or incitement to riot/violence where the threat is imminent.
Seems to me if one is going to complain about the law then they should clearly point to the law in question.
TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 79
MALICIOUS HARASSMENT
18-7902.Malicious harassment defined -- Prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person, maliciously and with the specific intent to intimidate or harass another person because of that person’s race, color, religion, ancestry, or national origin, to:
(a) Cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) Damage, destroy, or deface any real or personal property of another person; or
(c) Threaten, by word or act, to do the acts prohibited if there is reasonable cause to believe that any of the acts described in subsections (a) and (b) of this section will occur.
For purposes of this section, "deface" shall include, but not be limited to, cross-burnings or the placing of any word or symbol commonly associated with racial, religious or ethnic terrorism on the property of another person without his or her permission.
Better check carefully where you go in Idaho. Last I heard, when I was living in neighboring Montana, Idaho was beginning to get a little taste of some of the exact problems you are speaking of.
With just a few weeks left at work and retirement coming all my friends ask " Why would you want to move to Idaho ".
I have given this alot of thought and there is no way to say it without sounding like I'm racist.
I am just sick of my town and my state turning into little Mexico.
40 kids in my sons classroom and the govenor is cutting teachers because the state is going broke paying for all the social programs . 45 kids next year.
Trash litters our streets and the front of homes with handfulls of children sitting there in the middle of it doing nothing. My dad would have kicked my ass for not taking the time to clean up our own yard without direction from him. It was a pride thing. . What has happened to the community sprit that led me to think that everyone's yard is always clean.
I must have watched Wally and the Beaver way too much...
Gangsters and murder every day front page of the Fresno Bee.
Cops being second guessed by liberal politicans because they were too harsh of these punks that show absolutely no regard for anybody.
I believe that if a cops has to chase some hoodlum across town at a high rate of speed his adrenline alone should find him innocent after he kicks this punks ass. Back to street duty with a pay raise and a job well done.
Now tonight in a local department store it looked like a bomb went off.
Clothes and shoes laying all over the floor with kids running unattended everywhere. Every advertisement over the PA system was in spanish.
I was imbarressed to be in there. What has happend to our town? We were outcasts in our own city.
I know that life won't be perfect when we get to Idaho.
I just want it to be an improvement from central California.
Now the TAXES , traffic , air polution, diminishing ground water, and OHV trail closures are a whole different rant.
Somebody slap me down and tell me how wrong I am.. Or is it just time for us to leave?
I basically agree here. If you say this stuff you're a racists. I have no problem with Mexican people and I don't have a problem with people coming here legally.
I unfortunately think California is turning in to a 3rd world nation. Every other country in the world has a lot stricter rules about who's in their country. Heck even Mexico has armed Military guarding it's southern border. Yet if we want to protect our own border we're labeled as racists or being insensitive to the plight of the Mexican people.
Meanwhile hosptals are closing, schools are underperforming and the tax payer is constantly being hit up with more bond measures and other "tax" generating nonsense.
Now you know how we feel in Idaho when everyone moves here and the population grows. Our classroom sizes are growing and we need more money for schools but people don't want to pay higher taxes for that. Dmv fees are going up and they make you pay to launch your boats at the boat launches now. They all used to be free. We had are first murder in town in two years. A Mexican young man shot a local in the head because of a night club argument. That did not happen here 10 years ago. I get cut off in traffic all the time! Rude people push their way around you at the store. My hunting spot was totally invaded for the first time in 15 years. The ohv trails need more help because everyone buys 4 wheelers and dirt bikes and tears them up thinking that the forest service should fix them. I won't even ride or volunteer my time on Canfield mountain anymore because of all the people riding it. Eventually everything you hate I will hate because it is coming here. And when you raise your voice about it people tell you to shut up about it because they don't want to hear it. They found their paradise but forgot we already had one long before everyone decided to relocate here. It's really all about perspective and from your perspective Idaho is way better than Fresno. But I can remember a time when Fresno was a farming town just like our area used to be. Growth can be good but in the end what really happens is the destruction of your small town as it grows into a metro city. Idaho is on it's way and eventually I will be on my way out looking for my Idaho elsewhere. Because home got turned into suburbia...
ejay,
I hear you. Much of this is generational.
Just went to a friend's daughter's First Communion out of town. I was horrified a the disrespect, lack of proper dress & decorum, & the pop concert atmosphere...it was appalling. "J" would have thrown these charlatans out of the temple a la the moneychangers. Was like Disneyland...
Class sizes: I think is simpler for smaller towns. Teachers are not in NID to get rich. But should prospects for a nice life fail to materialise, we will have trouble landing the best candidates. Reward teachers for their commitment.The focus on $$ is overbown. Instead, offer proper respect and like-in-kind services, including zero-interest loans, retraining, etc. Ski lessons, hunting/fishing lessons, cooking, sailing, homebrewing, woodwork, etc. Make it about $$ and guess what, so will they. Non $$ compensation is a practical solution for a major urban area, but it would help in smaller towns.
Murder: A Honduran, not Mexican. Sounds like it was that tiresome yet lethal combo of alcohol, youth, the late night, and machismo. From all accounts, it robbed our community, not to mention the victim's family, of a really good kid. Just plain STUPIDITY and IMMATURITY. If illegal, then it would be even worse. I hope his actions are punished to the fullest extent of the law. But...let's keep things in perspective. Although capital crime is rare, it has its share of the ugly crime. Really, some degree of gentrification is needed at this point...we cannot assume NID is 100% rural or country-idyllic..., at least not in Kootenai County.
Rudeness: Generational. Time is less free and less available than ever before. More crowding. More mobility. All these are attached to uncontrolled growth. less opportunity for the community to absorb changes. But, yes, I also get dismayed from time to time.
Crowding and public land-use. This growth may require a shift in public space policies. Fees, restrictions, etc. Cannot see any other way. We need to learn from other places before things deteriorate too quickly. There is still hope. BTW, anyone catch the fee differential between residents and non on fishing/hunting? WOW!
Path toward Suburbia: It is scary. Stand at juncture of 95 and NW. To the west is Spokane. To the North is Sandpoint. lots of land in between with developers and public officials of questionable character and motivation drooling at the bit. There remain 100 Hayden Canyon projects and yes, a 100 Hayden Canyon community decisions to ponder, evaluate, and take action upon. What does on outside of borders in one town will affect the other towns materially. The challenge on all communities is great. Those who decide to sit on the sidelines will lose the chance to have their voice heard. The prospect of unfettered urban sprawl is real and dare I say, somewhat inevitable when when surveys the landscape. To me, the only way to deal with this is to move aggressively now while we still have control. Do nothing and the next 15+ years will simply continue the post 2001 trend.
It really comes down to a very simple, but difficult question that we in NID are fortunate to have the luxury of asking: what do we want to be when we grow up? Seriously.
let the debate center on the answers to that question. And let us listen attentively to the same debate in all towns in the Panhandle. Once we have a sense of that answer for most in the area, one can design an appropriate policy programme.
We can no longer avoid to sit passively...that is, those of us, who want to retain the character of what we see as the heart & soul of the region.
I'm leaving this in the Idaho forum (FOR NOW) since we're really talking about Idaho-specific topics and among Idahoans and would-be Idahoans. If this moves to the political forum we're going to get people from about every corner of the globe jumping on the discussion.
I need us to bring a little of the ascerbic tone down on a couple posts.
NCM, I agree with some posters that "hate" is a word thrown around so much that it doesn't mean much any more. I personally believe that hate legislation has gone down a slippery slope from doing things like protecting synagogues and ending the Aryans in NID to assaulting people's free speech. And it doesn't make me a racist to hold that view...it means that I believe that the pendulum of "Majority Rule, Minority Rights" has swung too far in favor of minority rights. Voicing unpopular opinions should still be legally protected IMO.
So folks...as long as we can really make an attempt to keep it Idaho specific, this thread can remain. If it goes into the toilet, it will get closed or moved to P&OC...
I've just re-skimmed this thread, and while I see plenty of commenters stating they are not racist, or words to that effect, I can't find any posts where anyone called anyone else racist.
Am I missing something?
I also have been unable to identify any state or federal legislation which interferes with one's right to free speech, except as noted above, in specific workplace situations, inciting to riot/violence where the danger is imminent, or in cases of defamation.
Note that the only relevent statute I could find, posted above, doesn't even include gender, nor does it address hate speech.
Can anyone point to any specific legislation which limits free speech where the speech is deemed "hate speech" in Idaho?
The only relevent laws I can think of, limiting free speech in idaho, which I'd have to look up to clarify, would pertain to pornography.
I hope you don't think I was accusing you of calling me (or others) a racist. I was saying that in a more general sense since it IS bandied about in so many threads here on CDF...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
