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I thought about asking on the Porch thread but I have a feeling I'm about to ramble. For miscellaneous context, I'm in my 20s and single (dating to marry), and my work and other income sources are relatively portable.
I have been living in Boise for a few years now and I have a better idea of what I am looking for in the place I'd like to make home. I had a conversation with a friend the other day that left me wanting insight from the N ID representatives here on CD, who I've had nothing but friendly and helpful interactions with (not to exclude Mr.Banjo and others either).
Mostly I'm just looking for a place that's: safe from violent crime; is friendly to family life, business, property rights; where people are friendly and polite, where making friends and mentors isn't a constant struggle; where hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation are significant to the culture. Cost of living is a factor, and ideally I would like to be able to own modest land area, but I would prefer to live with less in an area I like, than more in an area I don't.
Generally I enjoy the dry climate down in SW Idaho but I'm discovering the Summer highs are detracting too much from my enjoyment of time spent outdoors. I wouldn't mind trading 15F off the Summer highs for the same amount off of Winter lows, nor would I mind double the snow we get down here. I don't know how well I would tolerate winter lows regularly below 0F, and I would have a hard time making due with constant high speed winds. That being said, I would chance either of those 2 things before having to deal with hot, humid Summers with hordes of insects screaming and flying every which way for months on end.
I sort of had things narrowed down between the East Tennessee region and the North Idaho region. I've been to the Panhandle once before in the Summer, and I may be returning as a visitor this autumn hunting season. I've never been to the Southeast.
I recently returned from a Spring turkey hunt in Wisconsin and while there (my first time in the Midwest), I was immediately struck by how unusually friendly everyone seemed. I have a friend who grew up in Oregon, then lived for several years each in Colorado and California. It sounds like she's looking to move somewhere in the Southeast for cultural reasons.
I was mentioning to her my impression of the social climate in the parts of Wisconsin I'd visited, and knowing my list she asked why I wasn't considering Wisconsin. I reminded her about my desire to avoid hot, humid Summers and she brought to my attention the mountainous region of East Tennessee is about equally humid in the Summer months. Based on the data I am seeing, it does appear she was correct about this.
Regardless, she argued Tennessee would be a much better fit to me because she thinks in the next 10 years, Idaho will not be hospitable to any of the values I am looking for. She thinks Idaho is going to be inhospitable to family values, religious values (although I am much less religious, this is important to her), neighborliness and politeness (knowing your neighbors, getting invited to barbecues, helping strangers in need), community involvement and any kind of modest patriotism. More or less, the social climate will be like that of the suburbs of Los Angeles. She said she thinks at least as much is true of any Western state, and the only place for people seeking any of the things mentioned to go is the Southeast or a few places in the Midwest.
Up to this point Idaho has been ahead my mental horse race. I like the climate, I like the range of big game opportunities not available elsewhere in the country, I feel generally safe, I feel like I generally fit in. I have experienced a lack of social warmth here to some degree, but I attribute the bulk of this to the fact the Boise area is so urban and people in this part of the country seem to be polite but reserved when dealing with strangers. I've had plenty of friendly interactions with folks in the Boise area and have met people I get on very well with.
I was thinking when I got to settling in a less populated place, local-culture things would improve further. But after that conversation with my friend, I can't help but wonder if I was wrong about Idaho and she was right. Maybe I should just move to Tennessee and deal with some bugs and sweat a few months every year.
Sorry for the long-windedness but in short the question is: do you think my friend's impression of Idaho (and North Idaho in particular) is generally correct? If I'm looking for a place that's accepting of traditional values and has a friendly social climate, should I be looking elsewhere? I know a lot of the folks on here are much older than I am, I think your perspective would be very useful.
I will add, my friend has never spent more than a few days in Idaho, but I think she is jaded in particular about Oregon where at one time she was planning to return.
There's no perfect place, no hidden Shangri-La where life is perfect without disappointment or annoyance. Counter intuitively, accepting this reality greatly increased my level of contentment. You didn't mention what brand of religious you and your friend are, and I don't want to presume. But for me as a Christian it was very freeing once I realized that the Right and the Left are just slight variations of Babylon - in other words they're both worldly expressions of power that use violence and death as a weapon to gain power. Whereas my ultimate loyalty is to a different kind of kingdom that says true power comes from serving others, loving my enemies, and dying to self. So I turned off the news and talk radio and renounced the tribalism that has infected US politics. I choose to focus on people and relationships. It seems odd now when I encounter people (on both the Right and the Left) that are extremely unhappy because they are defined by their political tribe and live in constant fear. That's no way to live.
That said, things like cost of living, jobs, crime, and such do matter. I don't particularly like living in a place where crime is rampant or there is breakdown in social order. But these issues don't sort neatly between the Right and Left. Idaho overall is a pretty low crime state, including its largest city Boise. And the economy overall is in good shape. Yes, this can change, but no one knows if it will or when. And things could also change in Tennessee or any place you're considering.
A couple years ago I was at a park in Eagle with my kids (a more conservative area for those who aren't familiar) and I overheard some dads complaining about all the liberals from California moving in and ruining the place, and how their way of life was under threat. Then a few days later we were at another park in the North End (a more liberal place) and I overheard some moms complaining that extreme conservatives were moving in from California and wrecking the place. I can petty much guarantee you'll hear such talk from both sides in almost every place in the US. I'm sure there are conservatives in NID complaining about liberals moving in. And then liberals complaining about their new conservative neighbors. And the same dynamic is happening in Tennessee.
My advice: Don't get caught up in the tribalism, it'll just make you paranoid and unhappy. Spend some time soul searching and make a very short list of non-negotiables for where you want to live (cost of living, crime, access to outdoors, climate, whatever). Then identify places that sort of fit this this list, but know you'll have to compromise on some things. Then pick a place and make the best of it. Focus on people. Cultivate gratitude. And if that place goes to heck in a hand basket, well, you can always move.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Apologies for the misunderstanding, other than violence and crime I was mostly not asking about politics but about local culture and day to day social interactions. To be clear, my friend explicitly clarified she was not referring to politics either. My friend is some branch of Christian fundamentalist, I am actually agnostic but try to practice Christian ethics (I have met people who assumed I was Mormon on account of my dislike of heavy drinking, piercings and tatoos, casual relationships, theft and dishonesty, etc, none of this to suggest I'm superior to anyone).
The friendly nature of the people and their courteous behavior to others, (especially while driving), is one of the major factors that convinced me to move to NID six years ago to spend my retirement years. Alas, I have experienced a major shift since then and everybody is not so "nice" anymore. Characterizing it as being like a "Southern Californian suburb" is actually pretty close, (I spent my whole life from birth till retirement in various SoCal suburbs).
You couldn't get me to live in TN even if you gave me a nice house for free. No way! Too much humidity. Way more than here.
I also have to warn you that the marriage pool around here is slim. Wages have fallen way behind the cost-of-living and some/many/most? young professionals are bailing to other places with more and better opportunities to get ahead in life.
Crime is not an issue and most of it is either a spillover from Spokane or drug related.
The friendly nature of the people and their courteous behavior to others, (especially while driving), is one of the major factors that convinced me to move to NID six years ago to spend my retirement years. Alas, I have experienced a major shift since then and everybody is not so "nice" anymore. Characterizing it as being like a "Southern Californian suburb" is actually pretty close, (I spent my whole life from birth till retirement in various SoCal suburbs).
Hmm that's very unfortunate to hear. Is that something you're noticing just around Coeur d'Alene/ Post Falls, or even up in Rathdrum? And how about in Bonner County? Is it mostly younger people changing the tone of things or just the influx of all variety of people moving in with different values?
Do you feel any sense of community with your neighbors at least?
Quote:
Originally Posted by volosong
I also have to warn you that the marriage pool around here is slim. Wages have fallen way behind the cost-of-living and some/many/most? young professionals are bailing to other places with more and better opportunities to get ahead in life.
Haha thanks for the concern but my plan was more to stick around the city until I meet someone with compatible plans and interests. Which may shift where I end up settling a bit but we'll see.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Apologies for the misunderstanding, other than violence and crime I was mostly not asking about politics but about local culture and day to day social interactions. To be clear, my friend explicitly clarified she was not referring to politics either. My friend is some branch of Christian fundamentalist, I am actually agnostic but try to practice Christian ethics (I have met people who assumed I was Mormon on account of my dislike of heavy drinking, piercings and tatoos, casual relationships, theft and dishonesty, etc, none of this to suggest I'm superior to anyone).
No worries, thanks for clarifying, makes sense. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding again, but it seems like you're looking for social connection, a place where you know your neighbors and people share in your passion for hunting and outdoor recreation. If my understanding is accurate then I would be somewhat concerned about the recent influx of people into NID... not because more people is bad, but because many that are moving there are looking for their private piece of paradise. They just want to be left alone on their 5 acres in the woods. Nothing wrong with that, but it may get lonely unless you're plugged into a club or church or other organization for community.
Of course, I'm painting with too broad of a brush, community can be found in most places. It's just easier in some places. We chose to live in Boise's North End neighborhood specifically for the community. People are nice and wave and say "hi" walking down the street, we know all our neighbors and do meals/BBQs together, and our kids have tons of friends in the neighborhood. Of course, the trade-offs are smaller lots and closer neighbors, but that's part of what makes the community work... it's much harder to get to know people if all the houses are far apart on huge lots. You can still build community in such places, but you have to intentionally work much harder at it, and it takes longer. At least, that's been my experience.
They just want to be left alone on their 5 acres in the woods. Nothing wrong with that, but it may get lonely unless you're plugged into club or church or other organization for community.
That's also something to consider, thank you for raising the point.
........Mostly I'm just looking for a place that's: safe from violent crime; is friendly to family life, business, property rights; where people are friendly and polite, where making friends and mentors isn't a constant struggle; where hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation are significant to the culture. Cost of living is a factor, and ideally I would like to be able to own modest land area, but I would prefer to live with less in an area I like, than more in an area I don't.........
I'm going to start with the dating and state I know nothing about it, except that the people of North Idaho are much more into outdoor sports than they are into night clubs. Concerts are in Spokane, so you would already have to have your date and not be going there hoping to meet someone. There seem to be a lot of groups of young friends getting together at home and doing quiet parties rather than going out to whoop it up.
Cost of living is high. Real estate is really high which means that rent is high, Taxes aren't cheap and there is sales tax on groceries which hurts if your budget is tight.
There are endless fishing opportunities but hunting is not nearly as good as it has been in other places I've lived. According to the old timers, all the bird hunting has been paved over with houses. Other hunting, there is enough public land to hunt on but access is limited so it can be hard to get to and trailhead parking is often so crowded that you can't get in to park.
There is very little violent crime, most criminals find it easier and more profitable to live in Spokane where no one seems to care much.
The people are polite and will give you hellos and waves as they drive by, but that is as far as it extends. They are not interested in taking it any further. It makes things like shopping more pleasant but isn't going to get you wrapped up into a warm social network. Also, a huge chunk of the population has recently moved here from big cities and they are not friendly at all. If you wave at them as they drive down the street, you get a glare back if they even notice you.
You can check on realtor dot com for real estate prices, but anything with over an acre is going to set you back a very large chunk of money.
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