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I live in Southern California... the most insanely liberal idiots you can imagine. I cannot WAIT to get out of her and get with some like minded people.
Please, don't come here, no place on the planet needs more people who think those that disagree = insane. Perhaps you would benefit from a different approach because this attitude will not fly in Idaho either.
I tend to agree. Politics in this country used to be about compromise. Today it is my way or the hiway. This split is not conducive to getting anything done. As we have seen in DC the past year.
Obama may well get re-elected due to this split, and the republicans are mostly to blame. Before you react, I'm mostly a moderate conservative, so I am blaming many who I previously agreed with. But the GOP has totally screwed up in this cycle. Again, coming from a conservative.
Please, don't come here, no place on the planet needs more people who think those that disagree = insane. Perhaps you would benefit from a different approach because this attitude will not fly in Idaho either.
I inferred something completely different. There is a lack of "sanity" (i.e. any semblance of reasonable discourse) going on in relation to both ends of the political spectrum. There are areas of the country so far to the right that things are completely beyond anyone's ability to have a dispassionate dialogue about things, as there also are areas so far to the left. NEITHER area is particularly "sane".
North Idaho is a place where it's pretty far to the right, but folks are generally pretty reasonable and while conservative, have a more live-and-let-live way of things. So it's very fiscally conservative and family oriented but less strictly socially conservative than several areas I've lived. At least that's my experience.
Being ideologically moderate just means you have a different view, and does not imbue you with any more virtue or reason than someone further to the right or left. I agree that much progress comes from compromise, but the country has been dragged so far to the left that "compromise" now means 'agreeing to move left of center". In most ways JFK would be closer to Bush (the elder) than to Obama if you look at their records.
To bring this back to be relevant to Idaho, I do NOT believe there's anything wrong with moving to Idaho because it's known to be politically far to the right, any more than it's weird or wrong or strange for a liberal-minded person to leave Idaho and move to the SF Bay Area to be around like minded people. But that's just my $.02...
Oh...and among my circle of friends and acquaintances....I'M less far to the right than most, and more willing/able to have reasonable discussions with those on the left than most I know. But I was raised that it's not polite to discuss political, religion, or sex in social settings, and the majority of people I know go by that code in public, and come to places like CDF to discuss all 3 subjects...
I agree with pw72 and many things that Sage has said. I wish I could find more like-minded people to you guys, pw72 and Sage in South Idaho.
Sage, the only thing I have to ask about what you posted is about discussing religion.. Is it wrong for a person to openly practice their religion or to at least openly identify that they are a specific religion? To me, the First Amendment says freedom of speech, religion, etc.. Idahoans say they love America! Isn't this freedom part of America? Don't we thrive in our diversity? No, I am not talking rainbow-flag parades. I am talking ethnic/religious diversity. If I want to wear my kippa and Star of David necklace in public, why should that be frowned upon? Yet, in Idaho you really don't have the freedom to dress in this way. Yes, people will say that it will not be a problem, but most people here have big distrust of Jews, "associating them with being liberal and the product of deranged conspiracy theories". Even though they don't say it outwardly, as you could see from the previous poster who you removed, they let their feelings out on CD or behind your back. I can feel a not very friendly feeling. I have learned in Idaho, just as the neo-nazi said earlier: Hide my religion, period. If you are not a CHristian, this is a secular state for you.
I agree that people should not go preaching their religions or enforcing their views on other people. Strangely enough, I have had Christians ask me and others if I am saved and nobody seems to care. As long as you are talking about Christianity, people don't have a problem. I really don't know what North Idaho is like. I found people there to be real friendly when I visited this Summer.
I don't understand what it is, but outside of the "liberalish" downtown area of Boise, the people of this part of the state are very hostile and close-minded. They are the "VERY FAR-RIGHT" people you describe. Basically, if I do anything that does not fit their criteria of acceptance, I am the enemy. I never felt so scrutinized and Enemy/Friend mentality. They go around putting American flags on their trucks, but then treat other Americans like garbage. I have been attacked for weird things, like attending Meetup groups, shopping at the Boise Co-Op, that I dare ever make any good comment about Obama. I am fairly anti-Obama, but being told to get out of Idaho, because I made some good comments about the "health-awareness" program Michelle Obama promoted, just seemed very extreme!! It is very strange, the type of things that make people mad at you here..
Being a republican, pro-2A, supporting the military isn't enough. You have to be part of their snobbish inner circle.
I never thought I'd ever see what I see in Idaho. Seriously, I thought arrogance, snobbery was confined to ultra-liberal communities. I was wrong.
In Eugene, OR, for example, I witnessed the "hippier-than-thou" mentality among the liberal extermists.
In Boise, I witness a new phenomenon, "rednecker-than-thou" among the right-wing extremists. Two different sides of the same coin.
Last edited by MysticalDream; 04-03-2012 at 12:47 AM..
I lived for fourteen years in Helena Montana from 94 to 08 and I experienced some very interesting things during my tenure there.
Montana and Idaho are havens for the white supremacist movement.
In Helena there is a chapter of the KKK along with the National Alliance which is a version of American Naziism.
The Freeman, Militia of Montana (MOM), KKK, the National Alliance, the American Nazi Party along with various white Christian Identity movements and compounds can be found scattered throughout Idaho and Montana.
Even after Richard Butler and his movement the Aryan Nations were shut down in northern Idaho the sentiment of extreme right wing ideology remains.
I am a white American born male who supports the 2nd amendment, has disdain for illegal aliens and enjoys eating red meat but I felt out of place and out of sorts with some of the anger and paranoia that I experienced while living in the area.
You will find good and bad in any area but the ideology of separation and hate taints and influences the landscape in very subtle ways.
I tend to agree. Politics in this country used to be about compromise.
Compromise produced 15.6 trillion dollars in debt. When you attempt to please everyone, you end up buying them off to "accomplish" anyting. Argue for what you believe, but be civil about it. I find that far more palatable than compromise.
To answer the original question, no, northern Idaho is thankfully nothing like Portland or Seattle. The self-righteous angst of those places drove me nuts. Both beautiful settings. Both full of interesting neighborhoods. Both liveable cities. But not the happiness I found in Idaho.
MysticalDreamer, I'm sorry you've had the experiences you've had. I've lived all of the country, and my experience in Idaho has not been one of intolerance. Quite the opposite, it's been one of the more peaceful places I've called home. To be fair, I'm a rockribbed conservative, though I tend to look more like Romney than a goold ole boy. And I happen to like an organic fruit or two myself having grown up on a farm. I've always scratched my head at Christians who don't like Jews. It never made much sense to me. I've never actually seen that kind of intolerance, only read about it. I've gone to synagogue a time or two, myself, and kind of forgot to put on a kippah in the process (only to have a little tike help me out by bringing one). oops!
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Look at Missouri, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama. Despite being red states, the cities in those states are very crime-ridden, worse than California, even!
Have you looked at the social demographics of those states? Cities like Memphis and Birmingham (the largest cities in each state and compromising a pretty large percentage of the population) are entities in and of their own and in manys in no way resemble the rest of those states. Economically, educationally, racially, you name it. There are zip codes in Memphis that have infant mortality rates that are equivalent to what you see in 3rd world countries (I think equal to Iran when I compared them) (and with murder rates to match), and that's despite the fact that they have a major research medical center there, massive libraries, and the like. I've lived in Memphis and Nashville, and the racial tensions seen in the former are so severe I don't think anyone could live comfortably with them. The mayor of the city referred to the "white devils" living in the suburbs in a public speech. And that's how Memphis goes. There's just a constant, palpable tension.
Compromise produced 15.6 trillion dollars in debt.
Charles, why do you suggest such a thing? Perhaps you would agree, the National debt is mostly a recent phenomena, major debt growth appears to occur during the late 1970's early 1980's. NOTE, as a % of GDP, the National Debt has been higher during the Civil War, Great Depression, WW1 and WW2. If you look at the slope of the relationship between year and debt it begins to change during this time. It would follow your hypothesis that the 1980's brought about renewed interest in compromise. But, is this really the case?
Most would agree, entitlement and defense spending along with decreased revenue (since 2001) led to startling increases in the National debt. Yet, do you believe these issues are ones where compromise is common... or even possible? I don't think so. Entitlements cannot be fixed without compromise. For example, try being the single party which alters Social Security and Medicare eligibility. Yet, these programs have an easy fix... economists have been suggesting it for years. The original acts did not account for the changing demographics of the country. During the 40's and 50's few lived long enough to receive long term support from entitlements.... clearly, this has changed. A reasonable proposal suggested increasing the eligible age to receive benefits slowly over a couple of decades. But, can we get change without compromise? Ultimately, it would be nice to think our problems can be distilled to a single cause like propensity for compromise... I fear it's not so simple.
Sorry for getting off topic, I just couldn't lay off that pitch.
I wasn't talking about NOT being able to be openly religious. I was saying that "polite conversation" doesn't tend to include those 3 things. So if someone says "do you go to church?" and you say "No, I'm Jewish, I attend the local synagogue", that's not what I'm talking about. I was simply saying that getting into debates about whose religion is correct has no more place in "light social conversation" than discussing partisan politics or talking about one's sexual encounters. Those are things more appropriate for discussion among an "inner circle" of close friends. None of this has to do with the rights we have...I was simply commenting on social etiquette.
Julian, I see you make the statement that Montana and Idaho are havens for the aryan movements, but I want to point out that Butler's group was BASED in Fallbrook (Southern California) and spent summers in North Idaho ("summits" and "training"), and in law enforcement we dealt with a shocking number of nazi skinhead groups in urban and suburban Los Angeles County, ASTRONOMICALLY more than exist in North Idaho and Montana. What I think we see up here is that separatists make a name for themselves because they move here to achieve some sort of racial homogeny which puts our population in a bad light.
I think you just don't see it in urban areas because that issue is so overshadowed with other crimes and these guys are the bottom of the food chain among violent groups in those area so they can only be so public without risk of getting wiped out by black, hispanic, asian, or samoan gangs.
These "Conservatives vs. Liberals" discussions always seem to spring out of someone's bad experiences. But it is a generality to say "it's all bad over there or here or somewhere else". People are people in anyplace you live. And some are going to be hard to live with. Truthfully, I'm not even sure what the correct definition is for "a Conservative" or "a Liberal". Maybe someone can clear it up for me. For me, I find something about the person in front of me I like and mention it.
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And I happen to like an organic fruit or two myself having grown up on a farm. I've always scratched my head at Christians who don't like Jews. It never made much sense to me. I've never actually seen that kind of intolerance, only read about it. I've gone to synagogue a time or two, myself, and kind of forgot to put on a kippah in the process (only to have a little tike help me out by bringing one). oops! 
