Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Dating. More women get degrees than men and a lot of women are resistant to what they see as dating-down educationally. You can overcome that by being personable, or good looking, or high earning, etc. etc., but all other things held equal it's easier to date as a man if you are well educated. If you're a woman or already married, agreed on the who cares attitude but if you're a single young man there's definitely something to be said about it being easier to get a date.
Young people taking low pay web dev jobs over higher paid trade positions is rational from multiple viewpoints. Software engineering pays really, really well and if you can't get into it directly web dev is experience that gives you an edge in trying to break in. I know a lot of people (myself included) who took crappy low paid work more adjacent to the actual good jobs they wanted to break into over more pleasant and/or higher earning alternatives in the short term and for most it played out over the long term. Secondly, if you are artsy and value wanting to do something involving visual design over cash, web dev is a way to do that without being completely impoverished.
The difference between college educated women and men graduating in 2021 was 2.5% (men 36.6 / women 39.1). Not exactly a number that means non college educated men can’t find dates. If your speculation is correct, they still have 60.1% of non college educated women to choose from.
I agree that many, if not most, Americans could live just fine without a college degree. Many degrees are really not even proof of the person being appropriately educated. I've talked to many college graduates who have zero STEM knowledge. To me, 101 level courses in Biology, Algebra, Geometry, and English composition should be required for EVERY degree, even a HS diploma. People need a well-rounded education including the basics of math, science and writing. Sadly, our high schools are no longer requiring competency in these areas, and we get college students in remedial classes.
I was college-level material, but my family had never had anyone go to college, and we were poor. My HS counselor never even brought up college to me, even though I was in the gifted program. I didn't attend college and entered the Air Force instead. After 4 years in the USAF, I had a great career, working 25 years with a utility, ending with a 6-figure income. I retired in my 50s. I know many college graduates who cannot say the same. Many of my co-workers also didn't have degrees, and many did. I was fortunate that my utility didn't stick to silly requirements for degrees when someone had years of experience and the intelligence to hold a position.
There need to be many more technical school programs to lift the folks without degrees out of the retail/service industry/manufacturing sector. Those with the drive and skills in those sectors can move up to management, but for many of the rest they are dead end, low-wage traps. Skilled trades workers can move up into technical jobs, apprenticeships leading to journey-level work, or even owning their own businesses someday. I personally know journey-level workers in electrical, HVAC, and construction making 6-figure salaries.
One thing I have always heard perpetuated by Americans on social media, In the media itself since I was a kid was that you need to go to College to not end up impoverished. Even In TV and movies growing up you would see that if a high school student wasn't accepted into a College it was seen as the end of the world. In Europe and here in OZ/NZ this way of thinking is very strange to us. There are PLENTY of well paid skilled occupations that don't require university. In fact leaving school at 16-18 is quite common where many may go on to learn a trade for example and earn a salary higher than many who go to University.
Is the College obsession in the US really a thing or just something we see In the media? It's just something I'm alien to and wanted to see if it's actually a thing.
Most middle, upper-middle, and upwardly mobile people do. All of the wealthy believe that.
Generally, lower-middle and working-class people do not agree. They opt for the trades.
The initial salary may be somewhat higher in some cases. However, lifelong wages by a college-educated individual will be lower, as will the type of life they live.
White-collar people work longer, and their jobs are less physically taxing. They also live longer.
We have plenty of trade schools, and many students take that path. Twenty-five dollars per hour and no health benefits do not get you much in life. Remember, our health insurance is attached to the job. If there is no medical insurance, frequently the case, it's a hard life.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 05-11-2023 at 10:14 AM..
Reason: Typo: changed conger to longer.
Excellent post. Actually there are a lot of businesses who are willing to pay while you train in the areas of plumbing, electrical, HVAC etc. And they pay well. They are beating the bushes for folks. These business owners state how perplexed they are that some millennials and gen Z would rather design websites for very low pay...
One issue is, at least in my neck of the woods, businesses tend to be purposely vague in their wording regarding salary ranges (if they bother posting them), using qualifiers like "competitive salary," "up to," or "top performer earns" and while my generation would have believed that without question, as the parent of a couple of Gen Z'ers, they are quite sharp and will instinctively ask "competitive with whom?" and suspect that the "top earner" is either the business owner or an employee who is closely related to them. If they won't be open and transparent about pay, Glassdoor will.
Another issue regarding salary is, "pays well" is very subjective, and is typically coming from the perspective of the person who is doing the paying. If potential candidates don't believe it is good pay, they they will not bother applying, especially if they can make as much money doing something they enjoy.
College is not necessary - unless you want to be a:
Doctor
Lawyer
Nurse
Accountant
Engineer (some exceptions)
Veterinarian
School Teacher
College Professor
Pharmacist
Dentist
Pilot (pilot school IS a type of college)
...
I think you get the idea.
Plenty of trades ALSO pay well and are good careers - but I don't know any tradesmen who think it was "easy" - like, somehow, they "skipped" their version of college and jumped right to being an experienced plumber. Nope, they went to "plumber college" whatever that means to you.
I do not have one because I was not great in the classroom setting but it is worth it if you have the academic ability to pass all the classes especially without struggling then I would say go for it as it opens doors as far as getting a job.
If you did not do great in high school and struggled getting good grades them probably College is not for you and best to find a career that does not require one.
If you graduated with a 4-year degree and you can't do those things then you wasted your money...
Sort of agree, but depends on the field. Lots of "educated" people can't write well. Or make a presentation. I hire brilliant engineers all the time that can "think" their way to a new space shuttle but can't spell "space shuttle." Two different skill sets. YES - it's best if you can do both. But being poor at one thing does not (always) mean you suck at all things.
A 4-year degree tells me you learned to at least reach a goal. You paid, cheated, studied, scammed, learned, or bought your way to success - but however you did it - you did it - and that's more than alot of folks ever manage. If you think a degree in, say, STEM, prepares you for a career in STEM - well - look, STEM covers about 20 bajillion trillion pieces of technology on the earth - that's a guess - and STEM college prepares you for...what? A dozen? 40? Unless you are preparing for a career in teaching college students - then STEM teaches you how to "think" - where to find info - how to do analysis - and the fundamental building blocks of many, many things in the hope that ONE of those things will ultimately be your field. It certainly does not prepare you to be functional useful engineer the day of graduation. Nope.
Not the same for certain other fields, very much the same for many fields.
If you graduated with a 4-year degree and you can't do those things then you wasted your money...
Sort of agree, but depends on the field. Lots of "educated" people can't write well. Or make a presentation. I hire brilliant engineers all the time that can "think" their way to a new space shuttle but can't spell "space shuttle." Two different skill sets. YES - it's best if you can do both. But being poor at one thing does not (always) mean you suck at all things.
No, it doesn't mean you suck at everything, it just means that it's going to be difficult for you to advance in your field. Part of being a professional is being able to write reports and memos that other people can read (and also understand what you're trying to convey) and to present your findings to larger groups.
An undergraduate degree is a lot of reading, a lot of writing, and heck, a lot of that time is specifically studying the finer points of English. If you spent all that time and money and can't do it and have knee-capped your career then yes, you wasted your money.
People wonder why they get stuck at certain places in their career. It's the Peter Principle at work and it starts in college. If you don't put in the time to grow with the job - you won't.
In modern times, degrees have become a way for employers to filter the applicant pool. It's easier to find an individual with a certain level of aptitude, drive, and discipline from a college educated pool than the general population. Besides these traits led these individuals to pursue a college education which is time consuming and expensive.
it just means that it's going to be difficult for you to advance in your field
Agree completely. Plenty of "advanced" folks aren't great at writing or spelling - but they are the exception, not the expectation. Despite my occasional typos here on CD - I'm the Word and Grammar Police here at my job - and just about NOBODY is any good at it - and this is from a pool of about 30 engineers, many with advanced degrees. I'd say two or three are good writers - all the rest, I'm stunned they got this far in life. Good at math, I guess.
Point there is that a poor writer doesn't make a poor engineer - but given two engineers with the same engineering skills - I much prefer the great writer.
But I'm in the minority. Most often, when I point out errors in documents meant for public consumption - I get the side-eye, "No one cares but you." "No one would notice that but you." And so on. Obviously, I disagree with them, but I'm afraid we (you and I) are losing that battle ... somehow.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
