[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Work-from-home will disburse population away from over-crowded areas, & into less crowded areas. People prefer more space & lower costs.

This eliminates the need for public transportation, which is mostly a way of getting to/from work.

People make less trips to stores too, since so much gets delivered to doorsteps. Proximity to stores is no longer needed.

We are entering a period of mass migration away from high-density living, & into low-density places w/ lower costs.

Only the top X% will be able to afford to live near the beach. Everyone else will live in middle Florida.

This is happening everywhere, not just in Florida. The big city exodus began decades ago, & now its ramping back up.

People are moving away from the NE corridor because of the weather. If it were a cost and space thing, they'd move up to places like Plattsburgh.
The fastest growing places in Florida all look like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5382...8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3689...8192?entry=ttu
I wouldn't call this "space."

Actually, looks oddly familiar come to think of it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7313...8192?entry=ttu

These car-dependent places where everyone drives on overcrowded expressways create a sense of congestion far worse than living in walkable, urban environments.
Also, all major Florida cities are undergoing massive building booms in their core areas, with expensive highrise/midrise condos going up all over the place, in a sense, mimicking those very same "over-crowded" cities. Not to mention, the aggressive push for improved rail transit.

People get groceries delivered because everything is too far and requires driving on congested roads. If there was a store right around the block that sold basic goods, I don't think most people would be calling in delivery service on Sunday morning because they ran out of eggs and bacon.

Could have me fooled on the public transportation thing. I use Sunrail here in Orlando to get to and from Downtown and Lake Mary. Two nights ago, the 10:30pm train was FILLED -- as in barely a seat available -- with people leaving the Orlando Magic game. During the Christmas break, tons adults were transporting kids from Lake Mary to Winter Park every morning for whatever activities they were involved in. If there is a convenient system in place, people will use it. Public transit in our cities just sucks, plain and simple.

Finally, work-from-home is unrealistic in the long run. The vast majority of tech and engineering companies I know and deal with have returned to office. Look no further than our downtown daytime populations, and vacancy rates of high-priced downtown office buildings:
http://www.20norange.com/availability.html
Of many issues encountered with remote work, people with unreliable/varying internet speeds, causing crashes and corrupt files. Fiber-optic isn't available in most places, and a lot of rural places can't even get proper basic high speed internet at all. Not to mention, people using "open wifi" networks. Engineers and architects also need to print 30x42 plans. Not everyone wants to have a massive plotter in their home. And employers aren't going to dish out $15,000-$20,000 for each employee to have one. If anything, hybrid is the way of the future -- full-time remote work is not it.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by Arcenal813

NY isn't particularly dense at all though.

We're talking about states, not cities!!! And while FL and NY aren't like NJ, RI, MA, and CT, the densest states in the Union, and especially DC, which is the densest jurisdiction in the US, both FL and NY are in the Top 10 densest states, and both states are going to remain in the Top 10 for the longest because both states have the largest metropolitan megapolises in the country!

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

We're talking about states, not cities!!! And while FL and NY aren't like NJ, RI, MA, and CT, the densest states in the Union, and especially DC, which is the densest jurisdiction in the US, both FL and NY are in the Top 10 densest states, and both states are going to remain in the Top 10 for the longest because both states have the largest metropolitan megapolises in the country!

Obviously we're talking about states. What's your point? NY State is far from dense. FAAAAAR from it.

Originally Posted by wanderer34

both states have the largest metropolitan megapolises in the country!

LOL! What??

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by CCS414

A lot of it is going to be submerged by rising ocean levels in a few decades anyway. Unless they just plan on endlessly building sea walls.

How much do you predict the sea level rise in the "next few decades"? and how many is a few?

[logicalconsequence]

Florida is adding people, & most places up North are losing people, due to domestic migration.

FLA is seen as being a better place to live by most Americans. More people want to move to, & visit FLA, than any other State:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-states-us/

People love to attack FLA because FLA's winning, & the places they're from are losing....people, money, & environmentally.

The losers say FLA's; overcrowded, insurance rates are high, its sinking into the ocean, housing costs are rising, ect..

The losers have been bad mouthing FLA for decades, yet FLA continues to win with the best domestic migration #'s year after year, in many State financial metrics...like State Bond ratings, & in natural environment ratings like air & water quality. FLA is one of the Greenest States:

https://solarpower.guide/solar-energ...xide-emissions

Nothing they say is going to change it anytime soon. The free state of Florida will keep winning, & people will keep coming. If FLA was at extreme capacity, why do they keep visiting & moving here? Why do they keep leaving the places up North?

[silverct9a]

Beat me to it! I was going to use Palm Beach County as an example since I live here. The link is a bit misleading also due the population numbers being higher (1.54 million in 2023) than what's reported- probably just old data, nothing nefarious.

Palm Beach County is the largest county in the state by area (2,386 square miles) but alot of the western portion of the county isn't developed at all and in fact it's practically owned by 'Big Sugar', citrus and other agricultural industries so it doesn't properly portray density in the areas where people actually live.

I can assure you that Palm Beach County is much denser than what's being reported here - not as simple as divide population by county area for an accurate representation of everyday life.

There are areas of PBC that are absolutely remote and resemble the Panhandle and then there are areas where it would take one 45 mins to travel 10 miles on our 6 lane section of I-95 during certain traffic peak times even with our...certainly eye opening.

Side note: I predict Hillsborough County will overtake Palm Beach County as the third most populous in the state within 5 years or less...mostly due to COL.

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

The Stats that they are using in the link above can under report the density especially in the bigger Metros.

For instance Miami Dade County is listed as having 1,897 Square Miles of land but that also includes part of the Everglades Nat'l. Park and Water shed Conservation areas.
I have a Realtor Map from when I was in the business that neatly divides the County into perfect 1 Square mile increments across Miami Dade County for our MLS system.

Out of those 1,897 Sq. Miles roughly about 500 Sq. Miles is developed & habitable which means it is more densely populated than that link shows.

Miami Dade Pop. : 2,600,861
Divided by
Populated Area : 500 Sq. Miles
-------------------------------------------------
Average Density:= 5,201 People per Sq. Mile

Not the 1,069 people per Square Mile reported in that link.

[Corrie22]

Originally Posted by silverct9a

so it doesn't properly portray density in the areas where people actually live.

of course not....but that's true for states, counties, even cities

Monroe County...the Keys... is the prefect example of that....

with a population density of 20 people per sq mile

90% of the land of Monroe County is the Everglades up on the mainland...no one lives there

...way down at the bottom there's ~25,000 people living on a little over 5 sq miles...Key West

that's what happens when you try to divide population by sq miles....

[silverct9a]

Agreed - good example.

Based on the ratio of post views to replies, there are many lurkers so my post's intent is to provide accurate (to the best of my abilities) information for those considering the area.

Originally Posted by Corrie22

of course not....but that's true for states, counties, even cities

Monroe County...the Keys... is the prefect example of that....

with a population density of 20 people per sq mile

90% of the land of Monroe County is the Everglades up on the mainland...no one lives there

...way down at the bottom there's ~25,000 people living on a little over 5 sq miles...Key West

that's what happens when you try to divide population by sq miles....

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by silverct9a

Side note: I predict Hillsborough County will overtake Palm Beach County as the third most populous in the state within 5 years or less...mostly due to COL.

Also due to the fact that a large percentage of Hillsborough County is old rural junk, prime for new, denser development, as opposed to protected lands found in the big 3 counties of South Florida, and to a lesser extent, Orange and Seminole.
https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9761...8192?entry=ttu

[silverct9a]

Yes agreed about the protected wet lands. I was actually shocked to see how unkept, and junky even South Tampa looks (around the MacDill area up to areas near Target on Dale Mabry) - Especially with it being the "high end" area of Tampa Bay so there is definitely opportunity to improve those portions.

Further significant expansion in South Florida, especially for SFHs will have to be westward, as that's already happening. The availability and cost of land being considered for development east of Jog Rd in PBC is prohibitively expensive and is practically reserved for entities with DEEP pockets.

Originally Posted by Arcenal813

Also due to the fact that a large percentage of Hillsborough County is old rural junk, prime for new, denser development, as opposed to protected lands found in the big 3 counties of South Florida, and to a lesser extent, Orange and Seminole.
https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9761...8192?entry=ttu