[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Travelassie

I know we all talk about the cost of homeowner's insurance related to the risk of storm surges or flooding to the insured property, and assume, it seems, the premium rates would be directly proportional to those risks. But homeowner's insurance does not cover flood or storm surge damages- homeowner's policies state that in BIG BOLD letters on the front page of the policy to ensure the homeowner is aware of that fact and will obtain a separate flood insurance policy if he's at risk for flooding. So really, the homeowner's insurance premiums should not be affected by a dwelling's proximity to either the ocean, or any body of water.

Great comments, absolutely true.

The article is paywalled so all I had to go on was amounts and so I was talking about various aspects of the total cost of insurance.

I have no idea what terms and conditions are reflected in the 33k.

Personally, I suspect it's just the reinsurance markets having a hard time getting people to invest capital into Florida windstorm risks and so the cost has shot up for the primary insurers who then pass it along to customers. Obviously it's in disarray if people are charging 33k to 121k assuming that's even accurate lol.

Imagine the risk adjusted rates of return they'd want given how high interest rates are now for "safe" investments.

[sinatras]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Great comments, absolutely true.

The article is paywalled so all I had to go on was amounts and so I was talking about various aspects of the total cost of insurance.

I have no idea what terms and conditions are reflected in the 33k.

Personally, I suspect it's just the reinsurance markets having a hard time getting people to invest capital into Florida windstorm risks and so the cost has shot up for the primary insurers who then pass it along to customers. Obviously it's in disarray if people are charging 33k to 121k assuming that's even accurate lol.

Imagine the risk adjusted rates of return they'd want given how high interest rates are now for "safe" investments.

That's right. People are paying these RIDICULOUS homeowners premiums in Florida and the policies exclude flood damage and who knows what else. Every year the list of exclusions is longer. What a racket!

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by sinatras

That's right. People are paying these RIDICULOUS homeowners premiums in Florida and the policies exclude flood damage and who knows what else. Every year the list of exclusions is longer. What a racket!

Probably should take that up with the people that control the insurance market in the state, the Florida government.

It was a problem long in the making with artificial price caps to incentivize development. They finally broke the camels back and now you have a disfunctional market place.

[Bette]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Must be in a bad flood zone, and they must have a bad history of filing claims in the past.

It still sounds out of whack to me.

Our hoem is $1M, flood zone "X" & we pay <$2k in SW FLA...8 miles inland from the Gulf...newish home wind rated at 160 mph.

I live in the same county.

This is about 35 minutes north of me. Good area - east - not on water but close to it.

The home is assessed at 1.2M but it was built in 1925.
There are 2 homes on the property. One looks like an ADU (accessory dwelling unit).

Citizens will also cover dwelling up to $750,000 (I believe) so you have to go to other carriers.

Looks like they own another home in the same area as well.

Not sure if it's been updated - new roof, windows, doors, etc. That will make a difference.

[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Probably should take that up with the people that control the insurance market in the state, the Florida government.

It was a problem long in the making with artificial price caps to incentivize development. They finally broke the camels back and now you have a disfunctional market place.

Far as I know, flood/surge damages are excluded from homeowner's insurance policies in all states, not just in big old ugly Florida, LOL. Probably why the National Flood Insurance Program ( NFIP) is under the umbrella of FEMA.



Citizens insurance is a quasi-governmental (state) entity that was founded to provide property insurance to residents in the state unable to obtain the insurance through any other company, either because they have been rejected by other carriers or the rates are unaffordable. Though the state has claimed over the years, and continues to state they'd rather not be in the insurance business. So to this end, they've instituted the "take out" program which incentivizes smaller start up insurance companies to assume Citizen's homeowner policies in their efforts to divest themselves of the policies.



Seems to me if Florida doesn't want to be property insurer of first choice for its residents, it wouldn't want to mess with flood insurance in any way.

[hbdwihdh378y9]

Originally Posted by sinatras

The asking price has nothing to do with the premium. Insurance premiums are based on actuarial science in which the companies try to set a premium on which they don't lose money.

The home is 4 bedrooms at 3500 sq feet and not even on the water.

Are you saying that the Molinaris do not live in the real world? That Flamingo Park is not the real world? That these people are lying to the Wall Street Journal and that their premium did not double 13 times since 2019?

It most certainly does. It is correlated with the value of the house and with the cost to replace or repair the house if it is destroyed or damaged by a hurricane or hail storm.

[Travelassie]

Maybe we just got lucky, but the coverage on our homeowner's policy looks pretty complete. I don't see anything excluded that I would expect on a homeowner's policy, still has replacement coverage, loss of use, and mold remediation up to $10,000. They paid out $7300 for our mold remediation following Ian last year, and for the work those guys did, and the areas involved, I don't believe it was a ripoff.

I see the insurance company also raised limits on the reimbursement for repairs/replacement of damages to the dwelling, loss of personal contents and the amount they will pay for loss of use, to adjust for inflation. Guess it's fair to raise the rates when the coverage is increased.

Loss of use covers the cost of lodging, rent in the event the policyholder is unable to live in the house due to damage, or during reconstruction or repairs. We put in for a week's stay in an Airbnb house during thd time our ceilings and some walls were torn apart for the mold remediation, followed by the drywall crew that replaced it, textured and painted it. The Airbnb was expensive but not much was available esp.on short notice during Christmas week in SWFL with the masses of humanity here at the time. The insurance company reimbursed us for that week- we were actually out for 2 weeks but were able to stay for free for a week in a condo in Port Charlotte generously offered to us by some snowbird friends of friends.

I have no complaints about our homeowner's insurance.

[sinatras]

Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9

It most certainly does. It is correlated with the value of the house and with the cost to replace or repair the house if it is destroyed or damaged by a hurricane or hail storm.

No it does not. The premium takes into account the replacement value of the home, not the market value. Coverage is based on the value of the actual loss that can be replaced, not the market value of the property which includes the view, desirability of the neighborhood, etc.

One of my homes in Tampa is valued at $2.6 million appraised this year. It is a 1953, 3 bedroom, 2 bath ranch home. The cost to replace it according to the insurance company and my insurers' dec page is $412,000.

Your math is wrong.

[LKJ1988]

Originally Posted by sinatras

https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/home...tate_lead_pos4

“We love it here,” said James, who plays golf with his 3-year-old son on Saturdays and can swim year-round in his backyard pool.

Then the renewal for his home insurance arrived. The new rate for the year starting in September was around $121,000—more than seven times what the Molinaris said they paid last year, and more than 13 times what they paid when the family moved to Florida in 2019.

While they found a better rate from another insurer, at about $33,000 it is still nearly double what they paid last year. The family this month listed the home for sale with an asking price of nearly $3.5 million after determining that insurance costs made staying there too expensive. Others in Flamingo Park told The Wall Street Journal they are drawing the same conclusion.

“The for-sale signs are going up left and right,” James said of the neighborhood.

Already seeing homes sitting in my hood. These 2 bedroom dumps were selling for 20k on the gulf back in 2010 and HOI was like 5k a year and no Ins Comp would touch these homes west of US19.

Now flood Ins is like 5 k a year for a house worth 170k in my hood/

[NORTY FLATZ]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Well, I'd like to know, he has a 3 year old so he's not "that old" unless he's like Robert De Niro who has a newborn at 80 years old and I'd like to apply for whichever job "career: he has to be affording a 3.5 million dollar home! I'd gladly would still pay 133k for insurance, if I'm making 600k a year! I want that job!

Making $600k, lets you bring home 350k. Paying 133k for insurance leaves darn little for food/clothing/shelter....even if you're 80...