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I don't like questions like this because I think that there are far too many variables in the equation for ANY given household to tie any aggregate of answers to definitive causality in the economic sense.
I consider myself to be middle class, and my life has been steadily improving since about 2015 when I hit a low point, and prior to that it had been steadily improving every year of my adult life in most ways that I could measure or consider. Even through the height of Covid and the madness of 2020, my finances were steadily improving, my income continues to go up more than my cost of living does, my own personal quality of life just keeps generally getting better overall, and I don't really see any reasons in my foreseeable future for that to change.
Most of the people I know personally (and trust to tell me the truth) who consider themselves to be middle class, also say that their own lives have been improving year over year, aside from any sporadic setbacks particular to their situations, from which they generally recover and keep on going. However, most of them believe that they are special and outliers and that everyone else is screwed.
There is a mentality that I see in some rare and extreme doomsayers, it's like they hide in their homes and obsess over what the internet is telling them and even if going outside and looking around could disprove it, they still choose to cling to the weird apocalyptic tales they've absorbed from online. "It isn't my own experience but I'm convinced it is happening to everyone out there!" kind of thing. It's bizarre.
The people I know who are not doing OK are also not middle class. I often talk about my young adult sons and how badly they are struggling, and while I do shake my head at certain modern challenges they have (mostly rent prices/housing costs) I also think that neither of them has made smart choices or done things that they should have. If you can barely be bothered to try, how can you be outraged when you fail? Then there are some who are either disabled, or who are aging with inadequate savings, and yeah...they're struggling. But I can't look back at any point in my own memory to a time when they would have been just fine, either.
Absolutely. I've observed a lot of this myself. I personally am like you in that I hit a low point in 2015, but since then life has steadily improved. I am more than comfortable and enjoy a much higher standard of living than my parents ever did (and still do). The same is true for most of my friends and family, although some of them seem to deny it, probably due to listening to too much of the doom and gloom they see on the news or from other certain outlets. It's like people who think the world is going to hell and a handbasket based on the sensationalized crime stories they see too often on TV but completely ignore all crime stats that show almost every sort of crime has gone down in rate per capita since the mid-90s (minus a minor blip during COVID).
Not in the last 3 years, 3 months, 10 days, 7 hours & 51 minutes...
On a personal level, I've done better than most have and I acknowledge it. I never thought my wife and I would have the assets that we do and the means to afford a retirement that will be more than just comfortable. I went to college, played by the rules, had/have an interesting career, and came out well. I am sorry for those who have not done better. In virtually every case, the reason for not doing well goes far beyond politics. Some probably had real bad luck. Others, well...if you don't believe in education and you thought you do everything one way for thirty to forty years than you likely had problems in a changing and dynamic world.
Last edited by Lizap; 05-04-2024 at 08:31 AM..
Reason: Deleted off-topic comments
On a personal level, I've done better than most have and I acknowledge it. I never thought my wife and I would have the assets that we do and the means to afford a retirement that will be more than just comfortable. I went to college, played by the rules, had/have an interesting career, and came out well. I am sorry for those who have not done better. In virtually every case, the reason for not doing well goes far beyond politics. Some probably had real bad luck. Others, well...if you don't believe in education and you thought you do everything one way for thirty to forty years than you likely had problems in a changing and dynamic world.[/quote]
Almost everyone still alive has an improved lifestyle since the Spring of 2020.
Last edited by Lizap; 05-04-2024 at 08:32 AM..
Reason: Deleted prior poster’s off-topic comments
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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We are clearly middle class, as are our son and daughter and their families (with kids). We are all doing very well, much better every year with several promotions and pay raises. None of it has anything to do with the president/federal government. We have all managed to thrive because our incomes have increased a bit more than the inflation, so we are all able to stay ahead and still put some money into savings every month. We have 5 credit cards but only use one, and pay it off every month before the bill so no interest is paid. In 2023 we got over $700 cash back on it. We owe $275K on the house but it's valued now at $1.6 million. We have two car payments but one will be paid off this fall, no other debts.
I don’t see today as much different than the 1970’s when inflation was actually worse. People’s expectations have increased and that’s the problem. Young people want new cars, homes and fancy yearly vacations like their parents have.
When I was young we had an old house and car. Our yearly vacation was driving halfway across the country to visit one set of grandparents. Before the kids grew up we took one real sightseeing vacation to Washington DC for a week and we drove there. However, we always saved money every paycheck.
Once the kids were gone we had more money and could afford nicer things and nice vacations. All our friends lived the same way and were college educated with professional jobs. Reality shows are giving people unrealistic expectations.
I totally agree. I'm generalizing of course, but most young people wouldn't be happy buying what were called starter homes back when. Today, first-time home buyers often think that a home with wall-to-wall carpet or Formica counters is laughable, and they just aren't interested in fixer-uppers, so there "just aren't any" houses in their price range. The idea of buying only what you can afford is just "not a thing" now. Sharing a rental unit with a roommate was totally normal and absolutely essential for middle class young adults 40 years ago, many of today's young adults would rather just live at their parents' home, which wasn't an option way back when "18 and out" was pretty much the rule unless you lived at college during the academic year, and at home in the summer. Young adults forking over $100 twice a month for mani/pedis, and spending hundreds on collectors' edition sports shoes they never wear was unheard of, except for the rich kids. A lot of my friends in high school had jobs (like me) to pay for our own school clothes and pocket money. We had to pay for our own prom dresses and year books, and our parents drove us to prom, no limos. Today some people would laugh or say we were poorly parented.
I think many middle class middle-agers would be doing a lot better if they were only supporting themselves and not their adult kids and even, to some extent, their aging parents. Seems like not as many people work second jobs to pay off debt or get a savings nest egg today. Some people today do work gig type second jobs, but moonlighting to save up a down payment, or to get a better car, doesn't seem to be on most people's radar screens anymore.
Last edited by TheShadow; 05-03-2024 at 08:23 AM..
I don’t see today as much different than the 1970’s when inflation was actually worse. People’s expectations have increased and that’s the problem. Young people want new cars, homes and fancy yearly vacations like their parents have.
I agree about people's expectations driving subjective feelings about economically doing well or not.
I sometimes watch movies from the 1930s or 1940s and find it interesting to compare/contrast expectations as depicted back then to today. Back then in a city environment (NYC, Chicago, San Francisco) an administrative assistant/secretary would not own an automobile or home - she (it was always a "she" back then) might rent a single room in a boarding house or spare bedroom from someone at church. A male traveler might stay at the YMCA and in any case a hotel room might not have its own bathroom. While these movies are dramas and not documentaries, it affords the modern viewer with a partial lens into life 80-ish years ago and how expectations have changed.
There has been a clear qualitative change as well as a quantitative change.
New expectations are likely to be forged for new AI enabled devices such as Humane’s $699 AI Pin, Rabbit’s $199 R1 box, and Meta’s AI-equipped $299 camera-equipped Ray-Ban smart glasses that also allow you to take hands-free photos by saying “Hey Meta, take a photo” and take hands-free zoom calls and the like.
Last edited by moguldreamer; 05-03-2024 at 11:01 AM..
New expectations are likely to be forged for new AI enabled devices such as Humane’s $699 AI Pin, Rabbit’s $199 R1 box,
and Meta’s AI-equipped $299 camera-equipped Ray-Ban smart glasses that also allow you to take hands-free photos...
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