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There are lots of jobs going begging for workers and lots of workers moaning because they can't find a job and that is because the workers have unrealistic expectations about their own employment value. Everyone wants the job that is indoors under air-conditioning, 6 hours a day, no responsibility, no decisions to make, and no work beside pushing a computer key. That job must pay at the very high end of the possible pay scale, not interested unless it pays over $100K a year. Can't get that job, then they moan about how hard they are trying to find work and can't get a job.
Or they won't even take that job unless it is work-from-home.
They simply refuse to come to terms with the fact that they are not worth that kind of pay.
An anecdote from my own experience, the boyfriend of a tenant was complaining that he had been looking for work for 6 months and couldn't find a job. I told him that the place my son worked was hiring and my son had made over $110,000 that year (and this was 10 years ago when money was worth more) and his response was that oh no, he couldn't take that job because it meant working on weekends and his weekends were too valuable to give up.
Things like that reduce my sympathy for those who complain that there is no work. If I had a family to feed and rent to pay, I could have my choice of jobs and be working within 24 hours. Not $120,000 a year sitting in a nice office, but income to pay bills while I was earning an income and keeping the bills paid while I was looking for something better.
Last edited by oregonwoodsmoke; 03-18-2024 at 11:03 AM..
I was really starting to think, maybe, employment numbers were hidden by a combination of ghost jobs being posted and employers underpaying as a way to combat inflation. I was thinking something is hiding unemployment and underemployment: much the way shrinkflation is hiding price increases.
But I guess not. Things are great from what a lot/most of people are saying here. Although then I don't understand why people say the economy is "bad." I mean, if jobs are so great, then inflation shouldn't be an issue as employers would be paying more to keep people. But maybe I am overthinking it or trying too hard to see similarities with the 1970s stagflation with today's economy.
I would rather the economy be great so at least my retirement accounts continue to grow. My retirement accounts earned more just existing than I earned from actually working last year for the first time!
And it may just be age discrimination then as others pointed out. Like I said, three of us are over 50 and looking. The only exception is the 30 something marketing professional. So maybe that's it.
between March and May 2021, 63% of unemployed people aged 45 or older have been out of work for longer than a year. That’s compared with 52% of job seekers ages 35 to 44 and just 36% of those who are 18 to 34. And this is not a new trend: Generation found that, since 2015, individuals 45 and older have consistently made up 40% to 70% of the long-term unemployed.
Maybe this is what we are seeing.
Thanks to all who chimed in. I guess this really was a thread for the employment forums, not the economics forums.
Last edited by AccidentalVulcan; 03-18-2024 at 01:35 PM..
I have a former colleague who has been laid off repeatedly. She's 59 now. She has the technical skills for most jobs she'd apply for, but is very shy, probably doesn't interview well, and struggles to hold a conversation.
She was laid off from our team when COVID hit. The only person out of twelve to get laid off. She called in all the time between her mother and daughters. Sadly, she was probably let go because of the call-ins. She got laid off in a RIF from her job after that. I think she was RIF'd from a job prior to the one she worked with me at, and the place prior to that eliminated her division at that site.
Her age is likely part of the issue, but she has an elderly mother and two daughters here. I don't know if she'd relocate or not, but it seems like she doesn't want to when I talked to her last. Some people are just stubborn, or have other issues than age that stop them from getting a good job.
I have a former colleague who has been laid off repeatedly. She's 59 now. She has the technical skills for most jobs she'd apply for, but is very shy, probably doesn't interview well, and struggles to hold a conversation.
She was laid off from our team when COVID hit. The only person out of twelve to get laid off. She called in all the time between her mother and daughters. Sadly, she was probably let go because of the call-ins. She got laid off in a RIF from her job after that. I think she was RIF'd from a job prior to the one she worked with me at, and the place prior to that eliminated her division at that site.
Her age is likely part of the issue, but she has an elderly mother and two daughters here. I don't know if she'd relocate or not, but it seems like she doesn't want to when I talked to her last. Some people are just stubborn, or have other issues than age that stop them from getting a good job.
I sometimes wonder how I come across in interviews. I've been told I am poker faced so I try to be conscious about smiling and such. It helps that almost all are on Zoom now and I can watch my own face.
I seem to come across well enough for the jobs that want me to take a nearly 50% paycut. haha. I get offered those jobs really quick. And yes, they were almost half of what I make now (one was 40% less, roughly and the other just a little more than half). No, I am not quitting my job for that. If I was unemployed and despite, yeah. But why take that now? That's why I no longer apply to any job that doesn't give a salary range (and the range is acceptable). I will take a little less for more job security or better benefits, but only a little less.
I know what you mean about the issues. My IT friend's wife has a great job that pays well. That's how they are getting by--she's been out-earning him for years which is why he stepped aside to get more certifications. They have a kid in high school and another going to a state university. Packing up and moving would mean selling their house, abandoning the steady job the family has, uprooting their son in his senior year, and maybe making his daughter's college out of state/unaffordable. It's a lot to ask especially when he lives in a major metro area like me anyway. I keep telling him to go into business for himself as a consultant. I swear, where I work now has just as many consultant as staff anymore. I think that's all part of the "slowly dying" process though.
On an aside, today I heard back from a federal job I applied to nearly 13 months ago. No interview or anything, just something about me reaching out to them to let them know if I am still interested.
I sometimes wonder how I come across in interviews. I've been told I am poker faced so I try to be conscious about smiling and such. It helps that almost all are on Zoom now and I can watch my own face.
I seem to come across well enough for the jobs that want me to take a nearly 50% paycut. haha. I get offered those jobs really quick. And yes, they were almost half of what I make now (one was 40% less, roughly and the other just a little more than half). No, I am not quitting my job for that. If I was unemployed and despite, yeah. But why take that now? That's why I no longer apply to any job that doesn't give a salary range (and the range is acceptable). I will take a little less for more job security or better benefits, but only a little less.
I know what you mean about the issues. My IT friend's wife has a great job that pays well. That's how they are getting by--she's been out-earning him for years which is why he stepped aside to get more certifications. They have a kid in high school and another going to a state university. Packing up and moving would mean selling their house, abandoning the steady job the family has, uprooting their son in his senior year, and maybe making his daughter's college out of state/unaffordable. It's a lot to ask especially when he lives in a major metro area like me anyway. I keep telling him to go into business for himself as a consultant. I swear, where I work now has just as many consultant as staff anymore. I think that's all part of the "slowly dying" process though.
On an aside, today I heard back from a federal job I applied to nearly 13 months ago. No interview or anything, just something about me reaching out to them to let them know if I am still interested.
I've known for years since relocating back here that if the job I had were to vaporize, I'd likely have to move to a major metro.
I've worked remotely since 2020, and while I'd like to say (mostly) remote, the reality is I'll probably end up in an office in a major metro somewhere at some point in my life.
I'm just trying to enjoy the easy time I have now. I'm a lot more social and interview a lot better than she probably does.
I've had some lucky breaks, but I've also been able to take a lot of chances many people aren't able or willing to take.
On an aside, today I heard back from a federal job I applied to nearly 13 months ago. No interview or anything, just something about me reaching out to them to let them know if I am still interested.
I'm not surprised. That's a Federal jobs. It take ages to process anything. So hold on!
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Where I work there are currently 23 jobs open, ranging from $34/hour entry level jobs to $180k salary. The site I like that lists public agency jobs (below) lists 107 jobs, all except the seasonal jobs have good benefits.
Where I work there are currently 23 jobs open, ranging from $34/hour entry level jobs to $180k salary. The site I like that lists public agency jobs (below) lists 107 jobs, all except the seasonal jobs have good benefits.
....... My IT friend's wife has a great job that pays well. That's how they are getting by--she's been out-earning him for years........
This guy has a wife who is supporting him while he stays home, or plays, or whatever else it is that he does. He is not proof that no one can find a job. I suspect that he is not making much of an effort to find a job as long as the wife will still support him.
You yourself are not serious about job hunting and have turned down job after job, so you yourself are not proof that jobs are hard to find. If every job you find pays half of what you are earning now, you are probably over-paid so probably ought to hang onto that job.
I was really starting to think, maybe, employment numbers were hidden by a combination of ghost jobs being posted and employers underpaying as a way to combat inflation.
Employers do not underpay. When they attempt to do so, they lose employees. Employers must raise wages to attract replacements or go out of business.
Quote:
I was thinking something is hiding unemployment and underemployment: much the way shrinkflation is hiding price increases.
But I guess not. Things are great from what a lot/most of people are saying here. Although then I don't understand why people say the economy is "bad." I mean, if jobs are so great, then inflation shouldn't be an issue as employers would be paying more to keep people. But maybe I am overthinking it or trying too hard to see similarities with the 1970s stagflation with today's economy.
There are a three factors I suspect go into the survey responses that say the economy is "bad" that you haven't touched upon yet.
The first is called "Reference Prices." We all remember what goods & services used to cost just a few years ago before the Federal Government embarked on its $5 Trillion Helicopter Drop.
Quote:
Deodorant was what changed Rob Cooper’s mind about the economy. After paying under $4 for his signature Old Spice Stronger Swagger for a decade, the 49-year-old was shocked last year to see it priced at $7.99.
“My brain just cannot rationalize paying twice as much,” says Cooper, the Ambler, Pa.-based financial officer of a retail chain. “It doesn’t feel right.”
We all have reference prices in mind - how much things ought to cost. By itself, the doubling of Old Spice deodorant is immaterial, but each of us has a reference price and when many things are out-of-whack with their reference price, we know something is rotten. In this case, it is the economy.
The second is actual inflation statistics may understate what many people feel inflation really is.
Bolhuis, Cramer, Schulz & Summers have an NBER working paper discussing this phenomenon, and they attribute the issue to the cost of borrowing, which is not currently in the CPI "market basket of goods and services":
Unemployment is low and inflation is falling, but consumer sentiment remains depressed. This has confounded economists, who historically rely on these two variables to gauge how consumers feel about the economy. We propose that borrowing costs, which have grown at rates they had not reached in decades, do much to explain this gap. The cost of money is not currently included in traditional price indexes, indicating a disconnect between the measures favored by economists and the effective costs borne by consumers. We show that the lows in US consumer sentiment that cannot be explained by unemployment and official inflation are strongly correlated with borrowing costs and consumer credit supply. Concerns over borrowing costs, which have historically tracked the cost of money, are at their highest levels since the Volcker-era. We then develop alternative measures of inflation that include borrowing costs and can account for almost three quarters of the gap in US consumer sentiment in 2023. Global evidence shows that consumer sentiment gaps across countries are also strongly correlated with changes in interest rates. Proposed U.S.-specific factors do not find much supportive evidence abroad.
The third is with respect to the change in the way official CPI numbers are calculated beginning in 1983. In 1983, the way rent was incorporated was changed.
Here is the current measure of inflation along with what inflation would be if the BLS computed the cost of housing as it did before 1983. Notice the far right of the graph where there is a massive spike in the yellow line compared with the official blue line:
Last edited by RationalExpectations; 03-19-2024 at 03:13 PM..
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