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Since it seems that most traditionally minimum wage jobs like fast food and retail have hourly wages around the $15 an hour mark, I'm curious if it had improved those workers' qualities of life. Or is it still just as bad with inflation? Are they stiffed on hours? It seems like very few people make minimum wage these days. I'm not included the criminally underpaid tipped workers in this question.
Nope..........its math.
Inflation smoked them but then again if the landlord found out that everyone is now making 40K a year then guess what.....rent got raised too!
Visit Home Depot, Costco, Walmart or even McDonalds: Notice the self service registers/kiosks? They just thinned out the minimum wage crew and made the customer do more work!
Another point or three always missed or glossed over about minimum wage jobs.
... C. Fewer than 1% of US hourly workers over 25yo earn minimum wage wherever they are. ...
... A melange of the above already occurs as so few are actually paid statutory minimum wages.
EDS, your comments, “fewer than 1% of US hourly workers over 25 earn minimum wage wherever they are”, and “... C. A melange of the above already occurs as so few are actually paid statutory minimum wages” are inconsequential to the discussion of minimum wage rates because those rates directly or indirectly critically affect all, not just the precise lower wage rates, rather than the precise federal or states' minimum rates. They to some considerable extents affect all, or almost all rates at or below USA's or our states' median rates.
The extents of employees benefits due to their governments' minimum hourly rate laws, are inversely related to the differences between their paid rates and the legal minimum rate. Those paid more proportionally benefit less, those paid less proportionally benefit more. But minimum wage laws aren't detrimental to any employees and their dependents.
Respectfully, Supposn
Another point or three always missed or glossed over about minimum wage jobs.
... It may have been upthread, regardless, moguldreamer brought up an excellent point several days ago. When forced to pay their least valuable workers more any rational business owner who can will make a couple of decisions.
A. Will I be able to fire X number of my worst min-wage types and have the remainder to pick up the slack?
B. What more often really happens is mid-levels are tasked with picking up the slack.
C. A melange of the above already occurs as so few are actually paid statutory minimum wages.
EDS, regarding (A), the remainder of employees you don't fire, haven't you already been rewarding them for their superior performances? If you haven't done so, it's surprising they haven't found other employment where their efforts will be more appreciated.
I doubt if it's feasible to expect those superior employees to “pick up the slack”. If there's that much “surge” work to be done, I would suggest promoting superior workers to be crew chiefs, (with increased rates of pay), and you'll need to hire additional minimum wage workers for them to supervise.
(B) Have you ever tried to ask “mid-level” employees to do additional janitorial or other drudge work? Unless you increase their pay, the most superior of them will find employment elsewhere. You'll usually discover it's cheaper to pay a little more for superior lower-wage workers. Willingness to paying a little more seems to solve many business problems.
Self-checkout aisles are not a panacea; they require some employees to monitor them; they require additional space, customers take much more time to self-check themselves which consequentially increase chekout lines and disgruntled customers.
Managing a retail store or an office ain't that easy; you cannot depend upon a business managing itself. Respectfully, Supposn
NDak15, A minimum wage rate is the legally minimum hourly rate. If there were no federal minimum rate, state's would find it extremely less to feasible to enforce a rate that would effectively offer some financial protection to their wage dependent families.
What are you talking about? States can set (and enforce) their state minimum wage at whatever level they choose, even in the complete absence of a federal minimum wage.
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The federal minimum wage rate (to some extent) prevents lower wage states from undermining the labor markets of other states in the USA.
What are you talking about? In the absence of a federal minimum wage law, how would low wage states “undermine the labor markets of other states in the USA”?
We've had inflation for along time, but the big "$15 minimum wage" movement began long before the current big jump in the prices of everything. In the nearby city of Seatac, WA for example, the minimum wage went to $15 in January, 2014. Seattle followed soon after. They are now at $19.71 and $19.97, and the state of Washington minimum is at $16.28 as of 1/1/2024. The problem in finding workers is not so much related to minimum wage, but that many of the current crop entering the job market expect to start at $100k, and would rather stay at home with their parents than start at the bottom.
I don’t understand why there are so many parents, family, friends, etc. that are willing to support these people who simply choose not to work. There’s no way that model is sustainable. . .
All USA employees and their dependents financial conditions would be more improved if the federal wage rate would incrementally be annually increased until it attained 125% of its Febuary-1968 purchasing power and thereafter annually adjusted as to fall below that purchasing power.
Not true. Societal value is destroyed by minimum wage laws. A minimum wage that creates a price floor above the market determined wage for no-skill labor (the only meaningful minimum wage) ALWAYS results in a deadweight loss.
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No USA employees or employees' dependents are detrimentally affected by USA's minimum wage rates laws and all lower and middle wage earners benefit due to those laws. Respectfully, Supposn
Not true. In addition to the previously mentioned deadweight loss, minimum wage laws ALWAYS result in a surplus of no-skill labor. What do we call that? Unemployment. That would be the USA employees that are out of work, and as a result, their dependents are suffering.
One way to absolutely ensure that society is worse off is for governments to impose minimum wage laws.
What about the CEO's and board of directors of these companies that make exorbitant multi-million dollar salaries and reward themselves with big bonuses every year? Doesn't that money have to come from "somewhere" also? Doesn't it all come out of the same pot? Are you saying that doesn't effect anything, it's just what they are paying the poor peons at the bottom that matters?
CEO compensation is market determined. Minimum wage is politician determined without regard to market conditions. Surely you understand the difference. . .
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It's funny that we don't ever have a problem with all the money being funneled to the top, but people don't like it when the bottom wage earners getting paid more. Instead, we will ALL pay more to the masses who have figured out that it pays more and is way less hassle to go get onto food welfare and food stamps than to struggle in a low pay minimum wage job.
That’s a good argument to significantly modify our current welfare state. It’s not a good argument for a minimum wage.
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And for those that think "burger flipping" is easy, leave your cushy paper pushing cubicle job for about a month and go work a full time job at your local fast food establishment and see how you like it.
Given the very large number of people across all economic levels that have worked fast food, and other low end jobs, this most certainly isn’t the gotcha that you seem to think it is.
Monguldreamer, what's a “natural market-clearing wage”?
Not knowing what that means is a bit of a problem for someone that believes they’re in a position to lecture us about topics in economics.
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I've read nonsensical referring to minimum wage rates as an “artificial” rate.
They are absolutely “artificial” in that they are magically created out of thin air without regards to actual market conditions and economic principles.
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A market's minimum wage rate's an indefinite, (if there's no definite), effectively enforced minimum rate. A government's definite minimum rate is applicable to almost all employers and jobs in the USA. That minimum's applicable to even the least inconvenient or challenging tasks or jobs, performed by even the least desirable or capable employee.
There are factors determining jobs' wage rates and no less than other factors, government's definite minimum rate is among those factors. Jobs wage rates are affected by the minimum rate and are not “artificial” rates.
Increases of prices both contribute and are due to the U.S. dollar's reduced purchasing power. Few if any credible economists are advocating enterprises be prohibited from increasing prices. Why should U.S. governments not annually adjust their minimum wage rates to be reconciled with the dollar's purchasing power? Respectfully, Supposn
I’m sure that must have made sense to you when you wrote it, but it comes across as a Joe Biden-esque, meaningless word salad.
EDS, your comments, “fewer than 1% of US hourly workers over 25 earn minimum wage wherever they are”, and “... C. A melange of the above already occurs as so few are actually paid statutory minimum wages” are inconsequential to the discussion of minimum wage rates because those rates directly or indirectly critically affect all, not just the precise lower wage rates, rather than the precise federal or states' minimum rates. They to some considerable extents affect all, or almost all rates at or below USA's or our states' median rates.
The extents of employees benefits due to their governments' minimum hourly rate laws, are inversely related to the differences between their paid rates and the legal minimum rate. Those paid more proportionally benefit less, those paid less proportionally benefit more. But minimum wage laws aren't detrimental to any employees and their dependents.
Respectfully, Supposn
That is factually incorrect, and you need to stop saying it.
I don't work as a burger because I've done in high school. It's hard work with awful pay. I never said it was easy. Why do some people stay a burger flipper for years and years then? No one should expect to comfortably raise a family and buy a house working on minimum wage.
Not everyone has the aptitude, opportunity, or skillset to move into higher skilled, degreed, middle class to upper middle class paying occupations or trades. That's just the reality.
The problem is, we long ago shipped many manufacturing jobs away overseas for which those with this lower skills set could work hard at and still support themselves and a family, even in very modest means. Service industry jobs, such as those that generally employ people at minimum wages, largely took their place. The idea that "burger flipper" jobs are just for Johnny who is in high school and saving for his first car, or Jimmy who is simply working his way through college, is from another economic time.
We can call on companies with leadership making salaries in the millions, and often, billions, to pay these lower level workers better wages and benefits, or we will just continue to subsidize themselves with our taxes through social service benefits, like we are doing now.
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