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Wouldn’t that be household income of $43k - $130k? So a two income household would need to make roughly $21.7 each to qualify?
The generic "household" definition is a bit squishy with respect to household size, and this range breaks down on the edges because of it. A family of 4 with 2 $21.7K wage earners is not really middle class, a single earner with no dependents at $120K is pretty clearly upper-middle.
I think if you want to map to living standards you can be a lot cleaner by setting a single-person definition and then mapping to larger households -- SQRT(family size) is about right (aka you need about 1.4x the income to support two people living together than 1 alone, about 2.0x for a family of four) except in particularly high or low housing cost areas where it underestimates relative costs for a larger family.
Wouldn’t that be household income of $43k - $130k? So a two income household would need to make roughly $21.7 each to qualify?
That is what I said - median household income - but near the bottom would probably be mostly single parent / single worker households.
Interestingly enough though - the $15/hr that some are talking about would get you to about $30K/year (50 weeks at 40 hrs/week = 2000hrs/year). So if had 2 working the proposed $15/hr full time, they would be $60K which is near the median income - that is really not a starter wage.
So you're saying we have to scrimp and save and sacrifice and potentially work multiple jobs in order to afford a basic necessity that was once a possibility in this country 70 years ago on a single income, because the rich and NIMBY types have lobbied against building more affordable housing, while mega corps buy up hundreds of thousands of homes for the purpose to renting to those who can't afford housing anymore because they made it unaffordable? Got it.
Not in this country.
You can blame Housing & Urban Development and the Department of Transportation.
HUD took money from the vast majority of tax-payers and then lavishly dumped it into a handful of cesspools like NYC, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, St Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, Kansas City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.
Then DOT took money from the vast majority of tax-payers and built interstates to connect those cesspools.
Then people who lived in rural and semi-rural areas who had their money taken from them and dumped into cesspools didn't have any jobs because those two government agencies did not invest anything in infrastructure development in rural and semi-rural and so they flocked to and are still flocking to the only place you can get jobs, which are the cesspools.
Since cities, by definition, have a limited geographical area, there is finite housing and when you have 1,000 people willing to pay $2,200/month for a small studio apartment, well, that's what happens.
Increasing minimum wage to $15/hour will not eliminate the 1,000s of people willing to pay $2,200/month so it's still unaffordable.
If we buy into the Left-wing propaganda claim that we should support an increase in minimum wage because he causes all other wages to rise then the only thing that happens is the 1,000s who can afford to pay $2,200/month can now afford to pay $3,000/month and it is still unaffordable for minimum wage workers.
When you grow up and learn that $44,000 can be less than, equal to, or greater than $100,000, then you'll have the skills to investigate and perhaps move to a place where you can afford to buy a home.
Until that time, keep sitting in your corner and pouting.
As far as megacorps buying up housing, I don't see that anywhere around where I live, but that would be a zoning thing which means you preferred sitting on the couch streaming inane TV programs instead of participating in government.
That would also be a State legislature thing, since only States can grant corporate charters and States can place conditions and parameters on corporate charters, like corporations cannot own single family housing.
One difference between the NIMBY people and you is they actually got involved.
The generic "household" definition is a bit squishy with respect to household size, and this range breaks down on the edges because of it. A family of 4 with 2 $21.7K wage earners is not really middle class, a single earner with no dependents at $120K is pretty clearly upper-middle.
I think if you want to map to living standards you can be a lot cleaner by setting a single-person definition and then mapping to larger households -- SQRT(family size) is about right (aka you need about 1.4x the income to support two people living together than 1 alone, about 2.0x for a family of four) except in particularly high or low housing cost areas where it underestimates relative costs for a larger family.
You don't have to do that.
HUD and the Chief Judge (US Bankruptcy Court) and the Census Bureau and many other offices and agencies have already done the work for you.
The difference between those federal agencies and you is that they understand we live in a federal republic while you pretend we live in a unitary-State.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
$100,000 high income? Maybe $200,000... or $250,000 $100,000 is middle of middle class, not even upper middle class.
Again, because we live in a federal republic, it depends on where in the US you live.
$40,000 in Cincinnati equals $100,000 in White Plains.
$100,000 in Cincinnati equals $268,000 in White Plains.
The median income for a single person in Mississippi is $48,603. In the District of Columbia it is $86,370.
Thus, $48,603 = $86, 370
Median income for a family of four in South Dakota is $82,110 yet it is $204,686. For Mississippi it is $107,128 and $100,609 in D.C.
For those who don't get it, the Cost-of-Living varies wildly across the US so attempting to crow-bar the US into a happy little Iceland with 379,000 people and uniform Cost-of-Living is just stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith
I'm not able to get accurate info on the source for this survey, so it sounds a bit shady.
keep in mind that there is no more financial questionnaire portion to the census and hasn’t been for years .
there are just random samplings taken now like the ACS survey that are used .
to be honest i don’t think i could draw an accurate conclusion just in our own development as to who has what or earns. what . it’s all over the map .
many work off the books as well as in the areas of lower incomes everyone usually has a side hustle or participates in the multi trillion dollar under ground economy .
in the mean time those numbers drag down incomes that show the wealth or ncones that people have yet they actually earn more and have more then most who are honest about it.
personally i don’t try to count other peoples money or what they earn .. i only care that we stay solvent and have enough to live the life we want where we choose to live.
Last edited by mathjak107; 05-27-2023 at 03:19 AM..
I'm not able to get accurate info on the source for this survey, so it sounds a bit shady. Anyway, that's sure not what I have been hearing from some top law grads in my community. And like I said, if you don't bring in the clients, you're out on your can, even if you were a top recruit. Of course, that depends a lot on who you are and who you know.
From a separate source:
Quote:
Biglaw is the term used in the legal industry to describe the country’s largest and most successful law firms, which are usually headquartered in major U.S. cities, such as New York, San Francisco, Chicago or Los Angeles... A [first year associate will have] a starting salary of $215,000 that comes with long, demanding hours.
HUD and the Chief Judge (US Bankruptcy Court) and the Census Bureau and many other offices and agencies have already done the work for you.
The difference between those federal agencies and you is that they understand we live in a federal republic while you pretend we live in a unitary-State.
Again, because we live in a federal republic, it depends on where in the US you live.
$40,000 in Cincinnati equals $100,000 in White Plains.
$100,000 in Cincinnati equals $268,000 in White Plains.
The median income for a single person in Mississippi is $48,603. In the District of Columbia it is $86,370.
Thus, $48,603 = $86, 370
Median income for a family of four in South Dakota is $82,110 yet it is $204,686. For Mississippi it is $107,128 and $100,609 in D.C.
For those who don't get it, the Cost-of-Living varies wildly across the US so attempting to crow-bar the US into a happy little Iceland with 379,000 people and uniform Cost-of-Living is just stupid.
It's supported by SSA and Census Bureau data.
I wasn't talking to you I was specifically talking to Moguldreamer who is a high COL area (as am I). I wasn't speaking to the entirety of the various US locations. That's too much information for a simple comment. But, if making offensive comments is the only way you can feel superior or at least good about yourself then what can we say...
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