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the point that i think is being missed here is this:
the person who puts up a hand painted sign, or heck, even a professionally printed sign, on the side of road is going to be pretty indiscriminate about breeding the puppies and to whom they sell those puppies ...... and if they don't care who buys the puppies, as long as the check clears or cash is paid, what would make them care about what happens to those puppies when they are past the cute stage and into those terrible teens??
a reputable breeder would never have need of advertising in this manner..... a reputable breeder more often than not has most, if not all, puppies spoken for before they are even born..... and a reputable breeder asks questions, follows up, and will take the puppy or dog back if for some reason the new home does not work out.....
My thoughts Exactly!!!
reputable breeder VS back yard breeder...
yes there Is a difference, and you just stated it!
I am glad, however that there are many people that put forth the extra effort, time and energy to research breeders to find their perfect doggie!
i think this is a lot of speculation of what a reputable breeder would and wouldnt do.
i dont know that reputable breeders dont need to advertise. i found the breeder of my dog on the internet. i saw that she uses puppyfind and has listed elsewhere. i dont know if thats a sign up a good breeder/bad breeder/or anything other than she needs to advertise her product.
Reputable breeders don't use puppyfind.com, kijiji.com, craigslist, etc. They don't need to.
And they also don't consider the puppies they produce to be a "product." Good breeding has one purpose: to improve the breed and one's own breeding stock. It is NOT a vehicle to make money.
Reputable breeders advertise through the shows or working events that they title their adults in. They advertise through their breed club. They advertise in Dog Fancy magazine.
They also won't breed until they have a waiting list for puppies that's at least as long as a single litter.
A reputable breeder won't advertise the puppies, but rather advertises their adults that will produce the future great dogs.
A reputable breeder only breeds titled champions with outstanding health, temperament, behavior, and conformation. They offer a lifetime health guarantee, ask for veterinary references, do just as much if not more investigation of the buyer than the buyer does of them, and will take back the dog for any reason at any time. They participate in breed rescue, will say so if they think that their litter or their breed isn't right for the buyer, and will take the initiative to put the buyer in contact with other breeders if they think it's the best choice for that buyer. They sell on a spay/neuter contract.
Any breeder that doesn't do all of these things is a backyard breeder and is producing dogs that are no better than the muttiest Heinz 57 at an animal shelter. It is on their shoulders that the dog overpopulation problem rests.
Reputable breeders don't use puppyfind.com, kijiji.com, craigslist, etc. They don't need to.
And they also don't consider the puppies they produce to be a "product." Good breeding has one purpose: to improve the breed and one's own breeding stock. It is NOT a vehicle to make money.
Reputable breeders advertise through the shows or working events that they title their adults in. They advertise through their breed club. They advertise in Dog Fancy magazine.
They also won't breed until they have a waiting list for puppies that's at least as long as a single litter.
A reputable breeder won't advertise the puppies, but rather advertises their adults that will produce the future great dogs.
A reputable breeder only breeds titled champions with outstanding health, temperament, behavior, and conformation. They offer a lifetime health guarantee, ask for veterinary references, do just as much if not more investigation of the buyer than the buyer does of them, and will take back the dog for any reason at any time. They participate in breed rescue, will say so if they think that their litter or their breed isn't right for the buyer, and will take the initiative to put the buyer in contact with other breeders if they think it's the best choice for that buyer. They sell on a spay/neuter contract.
Any breeder that doesn't do all of these things is a backyard breeder and is producing dogs that are no better than the muttiest Heinz 57 at an animal shelter. It is on their shoulders that the dog overpopulation problem rests.
great post .... very well said ..... until you get to this last line.......
..........a backyard breeder and is producing dogs that are no better than the muttiest Heinz 57 at an animal shelter..........
this attitude of a purebred being better than or superior to a mixed breed is bothersome to me........
great post .... very well said ..... until you get to this last line.......
..........a backyard breeder and is producing dogs that are no better than the muttiest Heinz 57 at an animal shelter..........
this attitude of a purebred being better than or superior to a mixed breed is bothersome to me........
Latetotheparty, I don't think that a purebred dog is superior to a mixed breed - but most people do.
I do think that, say, a water rescue champion Newfoundland with spectacular conformation, temperament, and health is "better" than all mutts and the vast majority of purebreds, in the sense that it needs to be preserved.
There are "pet quality" dogs - 100% of all mutts and 99% of all purebreds - and "breeding quality" dogs, which are the ideal standard of what dogs should be and very uncommon.
The trouble is that too few people are aware of the distinction between puppies who simply grow up to look like the parents (those 99% of all pet quality purebreds) who are the same as mutts and who would have been culled a hundred years ago (but don't need to be now that we have spay/neuter), and dogs that actually deserve to be bred.
Most of my dogs have been mutts and all have been adoptions/rescues, but I support reputable breeding, too.
In terms of value, though, there is no way in hell I'd buy any dog that didn't have champion PARENTS with perfect health, conformation, and temperament. What would be the point? A great pet can be found at any animal shelter, the side of the highway, etc. But if I needed a dog for a specific purpose, like a water rescue dog or a mountain rescue dog - that would be the reason to buy from a reputable breeder. Otherwise there is NO point to buying IMO.
i'm sorry ... but in my mind, this is similar to saying that someone who has an MD, a JD and/or a PHd and is a talented athlete is superior to or better than joe sixpack who just gets up and goes to work every day at his manual labor job.........
i'm sorry ... but in my mind, this is similar to saying that someone who has an MD, a JD and/or a PHd and is a talented athlete is superior to or better than joe sixpack who just gets up and goes to work every day at his manual labor job.........
People with MD's, JD's, and (some) PhD's are paid more than joe sixpack. For a reason. Their labor is more valuable.
Nothing is worth more to me than my dogs except my husband. I would give up just about anything to ensure their well-being. I love them all equally, mutt and puppy mill-born purebred (adopted senior, not bought). A dollar sign cannot be placed on the love that I have for my dogs.
But a water rescue dog that will jump out of a helicopter to save my drowning life is a little different. These sorts of dogs (not just water rescue but you know what I mean) are the ONLY dogs that should be bred so long as we have a dog overpopulation problem. Reputable breeders will ONLY breed this quality of dog.
I'm not making some esoteric value judgment about the dogs' souls or anything. My pets are family members. If I wanted a working dog of some sort, he would also be a family member, no more or less loved - but who also has a very important job to do, who I'd invest a lot of time and money training for its intended purpose.
You can't successfully train just any dog for water rescue. Newfies are the best at it. Newfies born to exceptional, titled water rescue champions are the best of those. Health and conformation and temperament all play a role in the ability to be an excellent water rescue dog.
I happen to be into water rescue and if I ever have the time and cash to train for it then I'll STILL try to find a suitable dog to adopt, but nonetheless - it's something to be a bit more picky about than simply adopting your next pet.
In short, it's not the dog that's more valuable, it's the potential capabilities of that dog.
so the fact that the labor is more valuable (human or canine) makes the human or canine a BETTER human or canine??
by your reasoning, a lifeguard that makes close to the minimum wage is a better human than joe-sixpack (who during the campaign was a plumber who can come over and fix your toilet or replace your water heater or replace a leaky pipe in an emergency)
Last edited by latetotheparty; 08-17-2009 at 10:12 PM..
i don't get the impression that that's what she means.
i think she means that that's the sort of dog who it's worth spending significant money on acquiring. she went out of her way to point out that she has adopted mutts and puppy mill purebreds, and that they are just as good *dogs* in a personal/emotional sense as properly bred working dogs.
for example, my doctor isn't necessarily a better person than the guy i pay to shovel my snow in the winter, but i pay my doctor more because his services are more valuable.
my adopted mutt is the best dog in the world, naturally, but the fact is that her market value is pretty low.
People with MD's, JD's, and (some) PhD's are paid more than joe sixpack. For a reason. Their labor is more valuable.
Nothing is worth more to me than my dogs except my husband. I would give up just about anything to ensure their well-being. I love them all equally, mutt and puppy mill-born purebred (adopted senior, not bought). A dollar sign cannot be placed on the love that I have for my dogs.
But a water rescue dog that will jump out of a helicopter to save my drowning life is a little different. These sorts of dogs (not just water rescue but you know what I mean) are the ONLY dogs that should be bred so long as we have a dog overpopulation problem. Reputable breeders will ONLY breed this quality of dog.
I'm not making some esoteric value judgment about the dogs' souls or anything. My pets are family members. If I wanted a working dog of some sort, he would also be a family member, no more or less loved - but who also has a very important job to do, who I'd invest a lot of time and money training for its intended purpose.
You can't successfully train just any dog for water rescue. Newfies are the best at it. Newfies born to exceptional, titled water rescue champions are the best of those. Health and conformation and temperament all play a role in the ability to be an excellent water rescue dog.
I happen to be into water rescue and if I ever have the time and cash to train for it then I'll STILL try to find a suitable dog to adopt, but nonetheless - it's something to be a bit more picky about than simply adopting your next pet.
In short, it's not the dog that's more valuable, it's the potential capabilities of that dog.
I agree with you for the most part on this. Breeding should be done with the health, temperment and ability of the dog in mind. I guess I have a problem with people who think it is essential and responsible to breed for show lines. I have read that bulldogs often have to have c-sections because their puppies heads are so big. There is nothing responsible about this, and it wouldn't naturally occur.
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