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Wow, breaking a tooth on a chicken bone! I've never heard of a dog doing that. I'm sure it happens, I've just never heard of it. The lamb neck bones I get from the butcher are perfect. Plenty of cartilage.
There are regulations in the US on the sale of bones? Seems like everything needs some bureaucrat making up laws and regulations.
I've never heard of anyone else having problems from raw chicken bones either. BTW, the chicken bone fracture was on a partial frame, thus slightly more substantial. And, the tooth was a slab fracture - where part of the enamel broke off from the softer, interior dentin. It could have been an incipient weakness induced by earlier chewing. I still give them smaller bits of chicken bones - small sections of ribs and some backbone structure - when I have it.
As for the regulations, it's not just the national govt that has regulations. States have their own. Massachusetts, where I currently live, has some very restrictive laws on what can and can't be sold. To be completely honest, the regulations may not touch bones - but I know that it is difficult for me to get bones. Actually, thinking back (it's been a couple of years now), I may need to edit my message a bit.
Here is what I recall, and it should be pretty accurate:
The regulations (could be Fed, could be state, IDK) specify that parts, like offal (innards), sold as dog (or non-human) food require either a different processing facility, or a complete cleaning (something more than just a regular daily cleanup) of the facility. That complete cleaning may require re-inspection, IDK, but the butchers don't want to undertake the expense. It's obviously more involved than what they already do on a regular basis. Since I can see their regular facilities, I know they aren't running any sloppy operations, either.
I don't remember why bones were a problem, but I used to get them from a supplier who shipped out of an out-of-state facility for pet food, no problem, but had difficulty finding them at my grocers or at the butchers. I may have conflated supply issues with the regulatory issues. Sorry, I don't recall, as I haven't thought about the issue in some time.
Availability of some of this stuff may vary by state, due to state regulations. FYI.
I'm a firm believer in good bones for dogs. Keeps their teeth nice and clean. However, even with appropriate bones and supervision, all may not be well in puppy-land. I gave my previous hounds beef neck bones, among others. They are a good meaty chew. I gave the same to my current two: English Shepherds, a cousin farmcollie breed to Border Collies. BC are typically a bit lighter in weight and frame. My ES are ~50 lbs, give or take. And they both broke teeth. The 1st broken tooth was on beef neck bones. The 2nd broken tooth was on chicken - which - as you know - is much less substantial than beef bones.
Anyway, they don't get any bones anymore. While I think my two's teeth are just weak, any vet will tell you when they see broken teeth, it is most commonly associated with chewing on bones. If my two had otherwise good dentition, I might continue to give them bones. But they don't, so I don't.
All that is just to say YMMV!
As for letting the dog eat the beef bones? First off, I would avoid giving my dogs any beef bones that were small enough to swallow whole. If the dog can chew the bone down small enough to swallow, shouldn't be a problem. Dogs have bigger gullets (throats) than people, because they typically don't chew their food much. Bones do digest, so that isn't usually a problem, although under some rarer circumstances they can contribute to blockage. They may poop white tomorrow! All that calcium, you know.
Wow I'm so sorry to hear your dogs both broke their tooth on bones! One of them being a chicken bone was shocking for me to read. I was a bit weary on beef bone but now I won't be giving it to him. I'm leaning towards chicken and goat/lamb bones now. I don't blame you for not giving them bones anymore, I would do the same. I actually brush my border collie's teeth regularly each week with a paste that I make at home containing organic coconut oil and some other natural cleansing ingredients.
Here is what I recall, and it should be pretty accurate:
The regulations (could be Fed, could be state, IDK) specify that parts, like offal (innards), sold as dog (or non-human) food require either a different processing facility, or a complete cleaning (something more than just a regular daily cleanup) of the facility. That complete cleaning may require re-inspection, IDK, but the butchers don't want to undertake the expense. It's obviously more involved than what they already do on a regular basis. Since I can see their regular facilities, I know they aren't running any sloppy operations, either.
I don't remember why bones were a problem, but I used to get them from a supplier who shipped out of an out-of-state facility for pet food, no problem, but had difficulty finding them at my grocers or at the butchers. I may have conflated supply issues with the regulatory issues. Sorry, I don't recall, as I haven't thought about the issue in some time.
Oh yeah, there's definitely laws around offal here in Australia. I know that in my state you cannot sell raw offal as pet food.
Iirc, from living in the US (CA; I live in NYC as well but didn't have dogs) it was illegal to sell beef lung. Which was a bit of a weird one. But the bones one is just odd. I'm sure someone, somewhere wrote reams of prose about why it might be bad. It's a shame because beef/lamb lung is an amazingly high value treat for a dog.
Wow I'm so sorry to hear your dogs both broke their tooth on bones! One of them being a chicken bone was shocking for me to read. I was a bit weary on beef bone but now I won't be giving it to him. I'm leaning towards chicken and goat/lamb bones now. I don't blame you for not giving them bones anymore, I would do the same. I actually brush my border collie's teeth regularly each week with a paste that I make at home containing organic coconut oil and some other natural cleansing ingredients.
I did mean my situation to be a cautionary real-life anecdote. Kinda a YMMV sort of thing, you know? But I'm also pretty sure that these two dogs have weak dentition. When I get my next dog, if they have a full set of teeth, I will let them have beef neck bones - but with caution. Once they've cleaned off the meat, I'll take the bone up. If the dog loses ONE tooth - it isn't such a big deal. They can still chew. But this pair are already missing a full set of teeth, due to genetics (they are siblings, btw). Some just never came in. So losing TWO teeth WOULD be a big deal.
Anyway, I would just keep an eye out. I'm a bit at a loss here for the correct thing to say, to be honest. I firmly believe that dogs should get bones to chew on. It's a natural thing. It keeps their teeth clean. It's good for their dietary needs. So, I almost want to leave you with the message to keep the downside in mind, and have a caution, but otherwise, yeah, let them have bones!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC_1
Oh yeah, there's definitely laws around offal here in Australia. I know that in my state you cannot sell raw offal as pet food.
Iirc, from living in the US (CA; I live in NYC as well but didn't have dogs) it was illegal to sell beef lung. Which was a bit of a weird one. But the bones one is just odd. I'm sure someone, somewhere wrote reams of prose about why it might be bad. It's a shame because beef/lamb lung is an amazingly high value treat for a dog.
Yeah. There's a lot of excellent nutritional value in the parts that get thrown away. Lungs, green tripe (from the 1st stomachs, farther down the line requires cleaning), lots of stuff I would gladly use. But our butcher would lose his license for letting me have it. I know there was a good purpose there at some point, but sometimes it means waste.
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