Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC_1
I only recently discovered there is a thing called "positive only." Have the proponents ever worked with anything other than a lapdog? Lol.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazy67
"Positive only," in my opinion is nothing more than a joke! A fad! Yes, you can achieve "decent" results but some of the old tried and true methods are faster and more effective in training dogs to a high level. Dogs tend to remember a "proper" correction! Note: Many people don't understand the concept of a proper correction....you don't beat the hell out of the dog....you don't yell and scream at the dog, you don't hurt the dog!
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Positive reinforcement means you never say 'No' to the dog, you don't 'correct' the dog. The concept is that you 'redirect' their focus onto something else. You're basically asking them to do something, not telling them to do something.
Some may say that I use 'positive' training, but I actually go about things a different way. Basic manners are not that difficult to teach when you realize that the only way your dog is going to listen to you, is when you create an environment that brings the dog to the point that he WANTS to do what you say.
Bonding + Leadership + Fairness + Trust = Respect.
When I bring a dog home for the first time, I allow them to roam and get used to it. I let the cats and the dog work out their differences.
After that, I spend several weeks to a month doing nothing more than building the bond. I got a new dog in September from the pound. In that initial bonding time, I never told him 'no', I never corrected him, I never trained him to sit, stay, heel, etc. I just wanted him to know that I was the provider of everything. And he learned that very fast.
While on leash, I would make a noise to get his attention. At first, I wanted to see what he would do. He would turn his head and race back from the end of the leash, jump, and push off of me with his front paws. He seemed to love doing that, so I took advantage of that, and we kept doing it. That helped segue into testing him when off leash, later on.
When I became confident that he was going to come back if I made that noise, I let him walk around the complex without the leash. I would do it really late at night, when no one else was around, and allowed him some freedom on the lanes.
He would always look back to see if I was still there, so I took advantage of that, too. I would let him get ahead, and before he could look back to see if I was still there, I would make the noise to get his attention. He would turn his head to see me, I'd lower myself, and he would come running. I made it a game, and a reinforcement for him to know that I will always be there, I'm not abandoning him. That was not only bond building, it was trust building.
I took him on the long walks around the lake I live on to get him used to seeing other people and other dogs. At first, he didn't like males, he didn't like almost all other dogs, and he made a scene. As the days went on, he barked less, and eventually, except for a shirtless guy, (he deserved it, put a shirt on), he stopped barking at males. He still barks at some dogs, not all, but it's dogs that he wants attention from.
Once I knew that we had a good bond, and he was trusting me,
then I started on "training". He already knew 'sit'. Then, I started on 'focusing'. By this time, with the bonding and trust, this dog was already looking at me a lot. Once you have that, it's not hard to get a dog to start focusng on you without 'negative' (as they call it) reinforcement. I'll give one out for free:
Once your dog knows how to sit, you get treats. I use dog biscuits that he can clearly see in my hands. I stand in front of him, hold my arms out to the sides, treat in each hand, and look at him. What happens is that the dog stares at the treats. Back and forth, side to side, looking at each treat.
Eventually that dog looks at you. 'Wth, mate? Why are you not giving me those treats?'
As soon as that dog looks at me , I give one of the treats. Do this often, and slowly lengthen the time they have to look back at you and not the treats. It will click. The next thing you know, you can stand in front of your dog for a minute and he will stare at you the entire time. Then, you go outside with distractions. Minor at first, working your way up to major.
Heeling requires training. It doesn't need to be some long, drawn out, tiresome training. It can be done in an afternoon.
Dog is on leash. Dog is pulling at end of leash. Biggest mistake most people make? They yank back on the leash from their height. That doesn't do diddly squat. It's a simple move (and get rid of those stupid 'retractable' leashes because you have zero control over your own dog):
Dog is approaching the end of the leash and is clearly not concentrating on you, you lower yourself down. You allow the dog to reach the end of the leash on his side, and you, now at their level, flick your wrist which snaps the leash. That dog will understand, immediately, what you're asking him to do. (No, it doesn't hurt them, it gets their attention) You will need to reinforce that a few times, but it won't take long at all for that dog to figure out 'you don't pull me on walks, you walk by my side'.
OR, you can be "positive only", and spend weeks and months stopping and starting, walking backwards, changing direction, walking around the same orange cones on the floor of the pet store, doling out treats constantly, clicking and saying 'YES' as enthusiastically as possible the second the dog 'does it right', over and over and over and over again, week after week after week....stupid.
For 'pet only' dogs, I do not believe in e-collars that shock. I can't say anything about hunting dogs, or police dogs, dogs trained as guard dogs, etc, because those are far different than 'I want my dog to have manners and not destroy the place'.
It starts with
bonding.
It moves to
trusting.
You must be
fair. (Your dog does not speak English. Expecting immediate results is not fair.)
You must be the
leader. The die hard 'positive' trainers don't believe in a hierarchy, which is stupid, because were these dogs in the wild, that is exactly how it would be. You are the leader, not them. Anxious dogs, stressed out dogs are dogs that have no leader.
Those create
Respect.
When your dog respects you, your dog will do what you tell them to do. No need to treat your dog like a tiny child, and no need to treat your dog harshly.
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