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True, I wished I had put her up, but he had no reason to go in the backyard, he was repairing a fence out front. It was a learning experience and won’t be happening again.
Homeowners insurance will look for the smallest excuse to raise your rates or drop your coverage. I agree, it doesn’t make sense for the average person to keep the dog breeds considered dangerous. I can’t imagine the frustration trying to rent a place and listing the breed as a Cane Corso or Pit Bull. I know some well heeled people who own mastiffs and they can afford to properly fence them in.
I think this is true of all insurance companies. How many times have I heard of someone losing his auto insurance because he had an accident? Bloody hell! This is why people pay for insurance--to have protection in case of an accident. I have come to believe insurance is just one big racket.
Well, I've been there, done that, unfortunately. OP hasn't been back that we know of. There is some good advice, and some bad advice in the answers. All the warnings about insurance are pretty much on-target. You'll get cancelled in half-a-heartbeat for this, 1st bite or not. My FIRST advice would be, no matter what else you do, do NOT get your homeowner's insurance involved. Pay out-of-pocket if you must, but avoid reporting this to INSURANCE. I'm not talking about Animal Control here, not yet. And I'm not talking about the "first-bite" rule in the law, either. Those both are completely separate issues.
Second, this is an Australian Shepherd. A collie-type herding breed, sometimes with strong territoriality impulses. BUT, it is also a breed that nearly always has a BITE-STOP. Their bite is instinctually inhibited to a nip. While most people haven't got the faintest idea what I'm talking about, and the law certainly doesn't, this is a real thing. What this means is that this "bite" very likely was nothing more than a hard nip, and didn't break the skin. If it DID break the skin, the penetration would have almost certainly been nothing more than the merest breaking of skin - like zero penetration. There will be rare exceptions - but rare. This may not be true if the dog was in the middle of a dog fight and you tried to break it up, and got bitten just because you happened to be in the way, but that is the only circumstance where I would expect any penetration to occur. This is not like many, or most other dogs, including the European shepherd breeds (e.g. German Shepherds or Belgian Shepherds). Most dogs don't have a bite-inhibition, and when they bite, there can more readily be penetration.
The collie-type shepherds WILL NIP, in the course of doing what THEY think is their job - whether that is herding, or protecting territory, or whatever. That nip may be a very hard and painful grip with the teeth, but it is significantly different than a BITE. But legally, there isn't any difference.
What matters here is whether the skin was broken, or not. And, if it was broken, how much penetration was there. Insurance adjusters, Animal Control officers, and police officers may not make any further distinction between bites, once the skin is broken. And, if the person who got bit lies, and says there WAS broken skin when there wasn't, all those people are going to believe that person, and not the dog owner. That is not a "far-out" assumption. A hard nip will leave blood blisters or damaged skin, even if not broken. After that, it is no more than the scrape of a fingernail to "open" the wound. Again, this is a reason not to get the homeowner's insurance involved. The police and animal control HAVE to be involved, so no getting around that, AFAIK.
Exactly. You explained quite well the conundrum the OP is in. Their biggest concern is legal issues. Good info here. (Even if OP doesn't come back, it may help someone else). Also, good advice about not involving the insurance company. Even if they have to put bills on a credit card, that would be better in the long run.
Herding dogs can nip as you described well, but are not "maulers". It's not likely that this dog went onto a neighbor's porch and just attacked someone. We don't know the circumstances, but an immediate neighbor might have seen the dog loose and attempted to get close and look for an identifying tag. A skittish dog could snap under those circumstances. I can understand the neighbor being mad though. Even if I wasn't bit but a neighbor's dog growled or snarled at me while *off* his property, I would warn the neighbor about potential liability.
As an aside, I find this whole "breaking the skin" litmus test interesting as it only applies to dogs. I love cats and dogs equally but can't ignore the reality here. Cats can bite hard and regularly break skin with their claws too. I routinely get bleeding scratches on my legs when they jump on/off my lap. My cats are tame but a few can spook easily. They have bit/scratched a few of my guest's overs the years. Broke the skin too. Not once have I been asked for proof of rabies. (imagine if it was a dog ) Much more of a conciliatory attitude on the part of the victim too, i.e. "Yeah, I shouldn't have been rubbing kitty's belly".
In fact, with all the strays I have taken in over the years, the only time a repairman was in danger of injury was due to a cat. Funny story, (only because he wasn't hurt)...I secured my friendly dogs during a plumbing repair appt. This included a large GSD. The 3 cats always hide on their own so who knows where they were. Oh boy...My solid black cat was hiding in the kitchen cabinets which just happened to be under the sink where the plumber was working. The terrified (and virtually invisible due to coat color) cat unexpectedly flew out inches from his face. I came running when I heard him scream. Luckily, the kitchen table was far enough away that he didn't hit his head when he jumped back.
Poor guy. I felt terrible. We laughed about it later as he pondered how many years that scare just took off his life. He wasn't mad at me as there was no way I could have known. Point is, even if he was hurt and had to file worker's comp, there would be no homeowner's claim as it was "just a cat". Some of us obviously have some very bad luck. Maybe we ought to stick with cats so we don't get sued.
Incorrect! In "most places" (which is dangerously vague all by itself) the circumstances surrounding a dog that has bitten one or more times will trigger a hearing to determine whether the dog poses a threat to the public.
If, for example, the dog's owners were not found to be negligent and the dog is appropriately confined or managed, it may not be euthanized. I happen to know more than one person who's rescued a fear biter...yes, more than one bona fide bite on both the dogs' records. They've owned the dogs for years. They are careful who or what they expose the dogs to, they are always either confined, leashed and muzzled in public, and carefully managed. A dog startled or scared may bite in self-defense, but that doesn't mean it poses a public threat. As already discussed by people experienced with the breeds, herders tend to nip (and to the uninitiated or uneducated) nips can be considered bites. The dogs need to be taught control. Hundreds if not thousands of herding breed dogs are never threatened with euthanasia. Take it a bit farther. A canine police officer or personal protection dog has probably bitten numerous people over its career. They aren't euthanized once they reach that magic number of bites, they are carefully trained, assessed, and managed so they pose no threat to the general public.
Last edited by Parnassia; 07-04-2022 at 03:43 PM..
Yes, this is another one of those posts where the OP was given all the advice/information possible. There is nothing more to be offered. OP has never returned to the thread, either. This is another one of those threads that in my opinion should be put to bed.
Yes, this is another one of those posts where the OP was given all the advice/information possible. There is nothing more to be offered. OP has never returned to the thread, either. This is another one of those threads that in my opinion should be put to bed.
Yep, the post seemed legit. They even came back and edited in location info.
Many people already under stress and worried about a lawsuit may not want to deal with more criticism. Even if it's just "perceived" that way. What's done is done anyway.
No judgement here BTW. The OP also volunteered info that we never would have known yet was mentioned in almost every reply. The Meth Head brother.
OP wasn't even sure he left the gate open either. Let's get real for a minute though...When it comes to leaving gates open, it's not a relative with a drug problem most have to worry about. We all know it's your kids. 10 to 1 they will do stuff like this. Heck, they will leave the front door wide open if you are not paying attention. But you can't exactly kick them out now can you?
Hope it all works out for them.
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) Much more of a conciliatory attitude on the part of the victim too, i.e. "Yeah, I shouldn't have been rubbing kitty's belly". 
