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Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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Out walking our neighborhood on road, , Australian Shepard ran the 100 yards and circles around behind us, and nipped DW, skin was not broken. Called the neighbor and told them about the incident and reminded them of potential liability. Nice house, 10 acres, indoor pool. Owner was a developer, custom home builder. I find that Australian Shepard and Border Collies, are ingrained for shepherding and property protection, regardless of training. We didn't sue but the message was communicated.
Value what you own. Value your credit and insurance scores if you rent. Value your dog.
YDMV.
Better that than a moose bit your sister. (obscure reference)
One of my worst days was when my 4-year-old rescue German Shepherd dog bit a neighbor's child and was subsequently put down. It was his 2nd bite and they euthanized him.
Good article, the first thing is not to keep a dangerous breed unless you can properly keep the dog contained in your yard. The OP should have been pro active in offering to pay, instead of writing for advise on a forum.
When we lived in Phoenix, I specifically told a handyman not to go in our backyard, the rescue dog would likely bite. He said ok, I go back in the house, a half hour later, he’s been bitten. I immediately offered to pay for his torn pants and a trip to the Dr for a tetanus shot. I asked him why he went back there, he said he forgot.
When someone comes over to do work, you shouldn’t be expected to be their parent and keep an eye on them. This man was an adult, even so, the dog was my responsibility and I called him at home later to see how he was and to offer again to pay for a Dr visit. He refused, but thanked me for calling to check on him. What I did went a long way towards defusing a situation that could have gotten nasty.
The OP should fight for the dog and show the meth brother the door. If it was me, the brother would either be sleeping under a bridge or getting help for his addiction. A loyal, devoted dog is a better deal.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. I posted this as a wakeup call for all. I argued a few years ago with some posters here that were assured their dogs were covered under an umbrella policy. Not so fast, wait till a claim happens. They need to read this article.
I am unfortunately familiar with high risk homeowners insurance. Nothing to do with my dogs, but back to back claims in 2 years for catastrophic hail damage got me cancelled from a policy I had paid on for 20 years with NO claims. When I complained to my state's insurance commission, they told me laws favor insurance companies. They get calls regularly from homeowner's who lost their home in a fire and are now uninsurable. For some, if they can get insurance at all it will be high risk. (many articles online about this issue after the CA wildfires too)
Just like the article, my new insurance was higher, less coverage and had a dog exclusion. No way around it. Heck, Lloyds of London mentioned in article has a dog exclusion too. I was a little peeved when posting on CD and posters were saying they never heard of a "dog exclusion". (Why would I lie?) Yes, they exist and are becoming more common.
Sorry to hear about your handyman situation. People don't listen. I had an eye-opening situation with a power company worker too like in article. A nice worker who meant well but still scary in hindsight.
I have a totally fenced yard and was in the back with my 2 beagles. Never heard the guy pull into my driveway. (Some drive electric/hybrids). I went to the front yard with my dogs and almost ran into him. He also left the gate wide open. I screamed, "The gate's open! The dogs will get out!" I grabbed one dog and he instinctually grabbed the collar of my other dog. All this happened in less than 15 seconds. Nice guy trying to help, but what if a minor bite happened during the excitement of all this? With a total stranger no less. He didn't have time to register my dog's breed or current demeanor. In seconds he just grabbed him.
Wow. Good thing my dogs don't bite but with this happening on my property I know even the mellow ones can be territorial. HUGE wakeup call for me about "expecting the unexpected". Just wanted to share with others. BTW, the power company is not "trespassing" if anyone brings that up. You sign over express rights giving them permission to access whatever part of your property they need in order to read your meter.
If anyone criticizes me about my stance on known aggressive breeds, well trust me I have reasons. I about had a heart attack that day. All pet ownership can be stressful, but many breeds just aren't worth the extra stress.
I agree about the OP's brother too. I read posts from former addict's online and they all speak of hitting a personal "rock bottom" before they got real help and changed their behavior. It's different for everyone, but using this incident to kick him out may be actually what he needs.
Well, I've been there, done that, unfortunately. OP hasn't been back that we know of. There is some good advice, and some bad advice in the answers. All the warnings about insurance are pretty much on-target. You'll get cancelled in half-a-heartbeat for this, 1st bite or not. My FIRST advice would be, no matter what else you do, do NOT get your homeowner's insurance involved. Pay out-of-pocket if you must, but avoid reporting this to INSURANCE. I'm not talking about Animal Control here, not yet. And I'm not talking about the "first-bite" rule in the law, either. Those both are completely separate issues.
Second, this is an Australian Shepherd. A collie-type herding breed, sometimes with strong territoriality impulses. BUT, it is also a breed that nearly always has a BITE-STOP. Their bite is instinctually inhibited to a nip. While most people haven't got the faintest idea what I'm talking about, and the law certainly doesn't, this is a real thing. What this means is that this "bite" very likely was nothing more than a hard nip, and didn't break the skin. If it DID break the skin, the penetration would have almost certainly been nothing more than the merest breaking of skin - like zero penetration. There will be rare exceptions - but rare. This may not be true if the dog was in the middle of a dog fight and you tried to break it up, and got bitten just because you happened to be in the way, but that is the only circumstance where I would expect any penetration to occur. This is not like many, or most other dogs, including the European shepherd breeds (e.g. German Shepherds or Belgian Shepherds). Most dogs don't have a bite-inhibition, and when they bite, there can more readily be penetration.
The collie-type shepherds WILL NIP, in the course of doing what THEY think is their job - whether that is herding, or protecting territory, or whatever. That nip may be a very hard and painful grip with the teeth, but it is significantly different than a BITE. But legally, there isn't any difference.
What matters here is whether the skin was broken, or not. And, if it was broken, how much penetration was there. Insurance adjusters, Animal Control officers, and police officers may not make any further distinction between bites, once the skin is broken. And, if the person who got bit lies, and says there WAS broken skin when there wasn't, all those people are going to believe that person, and not the dog owner. That is not a "far-out" assumption. A hard nip will leave blood blisters or damaged skin, even if not broken. After that, it is no more than the scrape of a fingernail to "open" the wound. Again, this is a reason not to get the homeowner's insurance involved. The police and animal control HAVE to be involved, so no getting around that, AFAIK.
So, as far as socializing the dog, or training it, this may be less useful than most responders here will think. It may be a lot more dependent on the individual dog than most other breeds. But it IS something to work on.
But let's ask "What if there really WAS penetration, with broken skin, and a hole in the flesh?" That's a different situation. if a dog ever goes that far, they can't unlearn that. So you have to work with training and containment to prevent it happening again. That may mean using a muzzle in public, and 10' fencing, or other measures.
And, btw, your community CAN legally require that 10' fencing be installed to contain your dog. I don't think it is likely in THIS situation, but we have a couple of German Shepherds a town over where exactly that happened. Fortunately, the owner could afford it, as they are a physician. Other measures CAN be legally required of you. Measures may not be already in the law, but that doesn't stop a local community from putting something legal in place to require you to act.
So, I agree with the advice to
1. secure your fence so that someone CAN'T make a mistake and let the dog out.
2. Deal with the neighbor's issues directly
3. Do something about the methhead.
I would add that you should carefully consider where the dog was, and how the incident came about. Was the dog "doing its job"? WHERE did the incident occur? On your property? or not. I would advise not saying anything more than absolutely necessary to anyone. Ask plenty of questions to get others to talk, but don't share any "thoughts" or "impressions". I know I have a terrible tendency to do exactly that, and believe me, it can get you in trouble that you don't need to be in. So, "Just the facts, ma'am."
Well, I've been there, done that, unfortunately. OP hasn't been back that we know of. There is some good advice, and some bad advice in the answers. All the warnings about insurance are pretty much on-target. You'll get cancelled in half-a-heartbeat for this, 1st bite or not. My FIRST advice would be, no matter what else you do, do NOT get your homeowner's insurance involved. Pay out-of-pocket if you must, but avoid reporting this to INSURANCE. I'm not talking about Animal Control here, not yet. And I'm not talking about the "first-bite" rule in the law, either. Those both are completely separate issues.
Second, this is an Australian Shepherd. A collie-type herding breed, sometimes with strong territoriality impulses. BUT, it is also a breed that nearly always has a BITE-STOP. Their bite is instinctually inhibited to a nip. While most people haven't got the faintest idea what I'm talking about, and the law certainly doesn't, this is a real thing. What this means is that this "bite" very likely was nothing more than a hard nip, and didn't break the skin. If it DID break the skin, the penetration would have almost certainly been nothing more than the merest breaking of skin - like zero penetration. There will be rare exceptions - but rare. This may not be true if the dog was in the middle of a dog fight and you tried to break it up, and got bitten just because you happened to be in the way, but that is the only circumstance where I would expect any penetration to occur. This is not like many, or most other dogs, including the European shepherd breeds (e.g. German Shepherds or Belgian Shepherds). Most dogs don't have a bite-inhibition, and when they bite, there can more readily be penetration.
The collie-type shepherds WILL NIP, in the course of doing what THEY think is their job - whether that is herding, or protecting territory, or whatever. That nip may be a very hard and painful grip with the teeth, but it is significantly different than a BITE. But legally, there isn't any difference.
What matters here is whether the skin was broken, or not. And, if it was broken, how much penetration was there. Insurance adjusters, Animal Control officers, and police officers may not make any further distinction between bites, once the skin is broken. And, if the person who got bit lies, and says there WAS broken skin when there wasn't, all those people are going to believe that person, and not the dog owner. That is not a "far-out" assumption. A hard nip will leave blood blisters or damaged skin, even if not broken. After that, it is no more than the scrape of a fingernail to "open" the wound. Again, this is a reason not to get the homeowner's insurance involved. The police and animal control HAVE to be involved, so no getting around that, AFAIK.
So, as far as socializing the dog, or training it, this may be less useful than most responders here will think. It may be a lot more dependent on the individual dog than most other breeds. But it IS something to work on.
But let's ask "What if there really WAS penetration, with broken skin, and a hole in the flesh?" That's a different situation. if a dog ever goes that far, they can't unlearn that. So you have to work with training and containment to prevent it happening again. That may mean using a muzzle in public, and 10' fencing, or other measures.
And, btw, your community CAN legally require that 10' fencing be installed to contain your dog. I don't think it is likely in THIS situation, but we have a couple of German Shepherds a town over where exactly that happened. Fortunately, the owner could afford it, as they are a physician. Other measures CAN be legally required of you. Measures may not be already in the law, but that doesn't stop a local community from putting something legal in place to require you to act.
So, I agree with the advice to
1. secure your fence so that someone CAN'T make a mistake and let the dog out.
2. Deal with the neighbor's issues directly
3. Do something about the methhead.
I would add that you should carefully consider where the dog was, and how the incident came about. Was the dog "doing its job"? WHERE did the incident occur? On your property? or not. I would advise not saying anything more than absolutely necessary to anyone. Ask plenty of questions to get others to talk, but don't share any "thoughts" or "impressions". I know I have a terrible tendency to do exactly that, and believe me, it can get you in trouble that you don't need to be in. So, "Just the facts, ma'am."
Good luck.
As part red heeler, my boy dog definitely has herding instincts. He's nipped ankles in public, no harm done, just startling. After that happened, now when I go to the dog beach, I muzzle him because he gets excited with little kids around. He does fine with it. He doesn't seem to need the muzzle at dog parks. He doesn't like the muzzle but it's better than not being able to go to the beach. My girl dog is part border collie, but she's also a retriever so she's more interested in chasing frisbees and toys in the water than in herding little kids.
Good article, the first thing is not to keep a dangerous breed unless you can properly keep the dog contained in your yard. The OP should have been pro active in offering to pay, instead of writing for advise on a forum.
When we lived in Phoenix, I specifically told a handyman not to go in our backyard, the rescue dog would likely bite. He said ok, I go back in the house, a half hour later, he’s been bitten. I immediately offered to pay for his torn pants and a trip to the Dr for a tetanus shot. I asked him why he went back there, he said he forgot.
When someone comes over to do work, you shouldn’t be expected to be their parent and keep an eye on them. This man was an adult, even so, the dog was my responsibility and I called him at home later to see how he was and to offer again to pay for a Dr visit. He refused, but thanked me for calling to check on him. What I did went a long way towards defusing a situation that could have gotten nasty.
The OP should fight for the dog and show the meth brother the door. If it was me, the brother would either be sleeping under a bridge or getting help for his addiction. A loyal, devoted dog is a better deal.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. I posted this as a wakeup call for all. I argued a few years ago with some posters here that were assured their dogs were covered under an umbrella policy. Not so fast, wait till a claim happens. They need to read this article.
I am unfortunately familiar with high risk homeowners insurance. Nothing to do with my dogs, but back to back claims in 2 years for catastrophic hail damage got me cancelled from a policy I had paid on for 20 years with NO claims. When I complained to my state's insurance commission, they told me laws favor insurance companies. They get calls regularly from homeowner's who lost their home in a fire and are now uninsurable. For some, if they can get insurance at all it will be high risk. (many articles online about this issue after the CA wildfires too)
Just like the article, my new insurance was higher, less coverage and had a dog exclusion. No way around it. Heck, Lloyds of London mentioned in article has a dog exclusion too. I was a little peeved when posting on CD and posters were saying they never heard of a "dog exclusion". (Why would I lie?) Yes, they exist and are becoming more common.
Sorry to hear about your handyman situation. People don't listen. I had an eye-opening situation with a power company worker too like in article. A nice worker who meant well but still scary in hindsight.
I have a totally fenced yard and was in the back with my 2 beagles. Never heard the guy pull into my driveway. (Some drive electric/hybrids). I went to the front yard with my dogs and almost ran into him. He also left the gate wide open. I screamed, "The gate's open! The dogs will get out!" I grabbed one dog and he instinctually grabbed the collar of my other dog. All this happened in less than 15 seconds. Nice guy trying to help, but what if a minor bite happened during the excitement of all this? With a total stranger no less. He didn't have time to register my dog's breed or current demeanor. In seconds he just grabbed him.
Wow. Good thing my dogs don't bite but with this happening on my property I know even the mellow ones can be territorial. HUGE wakeup call for me about "expecting the unexpected". Just wanted to share with others. BTW, the power company is not "trespassing" if anyone brings that up. You sign over express rights giving them permission to access whatever part of your property they need in order to read your meter.
If anyone criticizes me about my stance on known aggressive breeds, well trust me I have reasons. I about had a heart attack that day. All pet ownership can be stressful, but many breeds just aren't worth the extra stress.
I agree about the OP's brother too. I read posts from former addict's online and they all speak of hitting a personal "rock bottom" before they got real help and changed their behavior. It's different for everyone, but using this incident to kick him out may be actually what he needs.
Homeowners insurance will look for the smallest excuse to raise your rates or drop your coverage. I agree, it doesn’t make sense for the average person to keep the dog breeds considered dangerous. I can’t imagine the frustration trying to rent a place and listing the breed as a Cane Corso or Pit Bull. I know some well heeled people who own mastiffs and they can afford to properly fence them in.
That wide open gate is every dog owners nightmare. My main complaint with visitors is having almost everyone leave the gates open. How hard is it to close a gate behind you? Yet, almost none of them do. People react in dumb ways, like the man who grabbed your dogs collar. He meant well, but could have ended up missing a few fingers if it hadn’t been a beagle. A situation like that could have gone from a hundred to zero in a few seconds.
My dogs are expected to act nicely at the vet or groomer and they do. When they’re at home and it’s night, they have my permission to bite anyone skulking around the property. It’s why I have large dogs with protective instincts. I try hard to be a responsible dog owner and they don’t have access to Fed Ex or any one who is innocent, but if they take a chunk out of a local lowlife trying to break in, it will earn them a nice dinner.
After living in Washington, it’s easy to see that meth is a huge problem. The person with the addiction has to want to get better. It’s no way to live and the OP mentioned him going outside to smoke. It sounds as though he’s living a comfortable life with no responsibility. A wake up call might be just what he needs.
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(many articles online about this issue after the CA wildfires too)