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Because people in Cincinnati and Columbus can't watch Browns games now? Media markets don't mean anything when you're talking about nationally televised games.
What I find most interesting about this discussion is that Columbus used to be a relatively dense urban city with rail transit up until the end of the Vietnam war. In the interest of "making it big", they dismantled that in favor of becoming a megaburbia.
That said, there certainly doesn't seem to be anything stopping them from becoming the largest metro, as they don't have the geographic or administrative boundaries that constrain CIN or CLE.
If there is something stopping this, it will come from within. There are no 3 million + MSA's that don't have some kind of serious mass transit plan laid down, which is a perpetual non-starter in C-bus.
Columbus had streetcars, like most cities, including most of the Big 9 in Ohio, but only Cleveland has ever had rail rapid transit.
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Clevelander who answered "maybe", because at the rate of its growth, maybe someday Columbus will gain the largest metro area... My answer is: who cares?
Unless Columbus radically changes in the next several decades, I can't see it ever having the desirable amenities of a major metro city I prefer: high quality arts, diverse populations (other than part-time student residents at Ohio State), diverse, old-school wealthy suburbs and city areas, quality mass transit -- not that Cleveland has anything to brag about Amtrak-wise, but Columbus is the largest metro city in the nation with ZERO Amtrak (and, oh, your lovable downstate, outgoing Guv, John Kasich, killed that change in vetoing the 3-Cs transit), a larger progressive voting population, awesome and diverse natural areas, both public and private, including a Great Lakes lakefront with several beaches, the Metroparks Emerald Necklace (including the awesome Rocky River Reservation (among others), and the breathtaking Chagrin Valley, the non-industrial Flats (which is literally downtown, no less), more pro sports than just hockey and minor league baseball, better downtown with more diverse activities and architecture ... I could go on...
Columbus had streetcars, like most cities, including most of the Big 9 in Ohio, but only Cleveland has ever had rail rapid transit.
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Clevelander who answered "maybe", because at the rate of its growth, maybe someday Columbus will gain the largest metro area... My answer is: who cares?
Unless Columbus radically changes in the next several decades, I can't see it ever having the desirable amenities of a major metro city I prefer: high quality arts, diverse populations (other than part-time student residents at Ohio State), diverse, old-school wealthy suburbs and city areas, quality mass transit -- not that Cleveland has anything to brag about Amtrak-wise, but Columbus is the largest metro city in the nation with ZERO Amtrak (and, oh, your lovable downstate, outgoing Guv, John Kasich, killed that change in vetoing the 3-Cs transit), a larger progressive voting population, awesome and diverse natural areas, both public and private, including a Great Lakes lakefront with several beaches, the Metroparks Emerald Necklace (including the awesome Rocky River Reservation (among others), and the breathtaking Chagrin Valley, the non-industrial Flats (which is literally downtown, no less), more pro sports than just hockey and minor league baseball, better downtown with more diverse activities and architecture ... I could go on...
Good post, and one I can agree with.
I will say there are certain posters on here from Cleveland that go way over the top, and there is one or two from Cincinnati who do the exact same thing. The thing I find most hypocritical is Columbus posters who also do the same thing. Give up the woe is me act, it's not working. One Columbus poster in this thread went to extreme lengths to bash Cleveland. You're just looking bad at that point.
It does get annoying to hear Columbus posters think they are the end all, be all of all things Ohio. You do realize there is a state with over 9 million residents out there that live their own lives without thinking Columbus needs to be praised for their growth every single day? Give it up. Stop bashing Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, Akron, etc and maybe people wouldn't need to put down Columbus. It really does go both ways.
I know the naysayers can be a frustrating lot, especially when they repeat the same tired, false arguments, but this doesn't help that stop. Cleveland is a good city and we should want it to succeed too, just as Cincy has made a turnaround.
But you have Columbus naysayers, too. I think Columbus is a good city, but I never see Columbus posters talk about the strengths of Cincinnati or Cleveland, especially Cleveland and I think that is because both cities have posters that constantly go at it. I know you're active elsewhere, but outside of Columbus, I think you have no clue about Cincinnati or Cleveland besides doing internet research. So listening to you with your little put downs towards most of Ohio I just don't get.
I will say there are certain posters on here from Cleveland that go way over the top, and there is one or two from Cincinnati who do the exact same thing. The thing I find most hypocritical is Columbus posters who also do the same thing. Give up the woe is me act, it's not working. One Columbus poster in this thread went to extreme lengths to bash Cleveland. You're just looking bad at that point.
It does get annoying to hear Columbus posters think they are the end all, be all of all things Ohio. You do realize there is a state with over 9 million residents out there that live their own lives without thinking Columbus needs to be praised for their growth every single day? Give it up. Stop bashing Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, Akron, etc and maybe people wouldn't need to put down Columbus. It really does go both ways.
But you have Columbus naysayers, too. I think Columbus is a good city, but I never see Columbus posters talk about the strengths of Cincinnati or Cleveland, especially Cleveland and I think that is because both cities have posters that constantly go at it. I know you're active elsewhere, but outside of Columbus, I think you have no clue about Cincinnati or Cleveland besides doing internet research. So listening to you with your little put downs towards most of Ohio I just don't get.
To be fair, there are very few regular Columbus posters on this forum. They all post elsewhere. And it's very rare that Columbus posters go out of their way to post on the Cincinnati/Cleveland forums, or to even talk about those cities, the way that posters from the other 2-Cs talk about Columbus and post in its forum. It's not even remotely close. And most of the time, it is unsolicited criticism and negativity. It's been that way for as long as I've posted here, which is not much these days because I got tired of wading through that.
What exactly is required to know about Cincinnati and Cleveland that I'm not aware of? I've been to these cities before, I've done plenty of research on their demographics, population, economies, history, etc. What is it that you think I'm missing? And what put downs did I do in this thread? I literally just defended them.
I will say there are certain posters on here from Cleveland that go way over the top, and there is one or two from Cincinnati who do the exact same thing. The thing I find most hypocritical is Columbus posters who also do the same thing. Give up the woe is me act, it's not working. One Columbus poster in this thread went to extreme lengths to bash Cleveland. You're just looking bad at that point.
It does get annoying to hear Columbus posters think they are the end all, be all of all things Ohio. You do realize there is a state with over 9 million residents out there that live their own lives without thinking Columbus needs to be praised for their growth every single day? Give it up. Stop bashing Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, Akron, etc and maybe people wouldn't need to put down Columbus. It really does go both ways.
I'm pretty sure it's just expected at this point in these threads sadly. Columbus (myself included), Cleveland, and Cincinnati posters are all pretty guilty of throwing immense shade in these threads. Most actual conversation ends up buried or ignored with back and forth pissing contests between the cities.
So I'll be real and post something that hopefully can start a constructive discussion.
I don't believe (or hope) that Columbus posters all just want to be praised for population, some maybe, but not all. Population isn't everything, yes its valuable in building culture and amenities, but that is heavily based on what the people want. Building off of that though is that with a growing population, the right mentality, and the right leadership... these amenities are created. I think Columbus is finally hitting that threshold where things happen. The city recently opened the National Veterans Memorial Museum, there have been rumblings of a true Natural History Museum with the Wexners attached to the project, The saving of the Crew, infill and density, and even some mass transit rumbling (and my god we HAVE to look at transit). These all lead to a more cohesive and "city" experience that many posters say Columbus lacks. We know we don't have a lot of things Cincinnati or Cleveland have, but we are working on it, just because they don't exist doesn't mean they never will. Columbus is in it's awkward teen phase.
The reality is that Columbus is on the right track for the most part but also does have serious issues to tackle, I'm not under any delusion that were good to go. If the city cannot tackle these issues, I do think the momentum could stall. Columbus should be looking to Cleveland and Cincinnati on what they did that made them great, and Cleveland and Cincinnati should look at some things Columbus has done to build momentum and some new success. Every single Ohio city has issues and every single one has strengths, that's reality. I look at it as the 3Cs, for the first time in history, are pretty equal, each has pros, each has cons, and each has potential for failure or success.
Do I believe Columbus will become the largest metro? Yeah, but what Columbus needs to care about is what it takes to become a great metro, not just a large metro. I mean Houston is a large metro but I think most people would take Seattle or Minneapolis over Houston. Population isn't everything, growth helps, yes, but it's how the growth is leveraged that matters... That is what Columbus has to figure out. What truly do you think it would take to make Columbus a great metro? It can be done, but is it being done?
As a native Middletonian....Cin-Day or whatever they wanna call it is real. When its official with the census is meaningless.
Cities are organic...there is a sort of gravity that pulls smaller cities gradually into the orbit of growing larger cities....As such...Cin-Day is truly becoming on organic mass....a real unified metro.
So no....I dont see Columbus passing CinDay anytime soon.
Columbus has by far the greatest geographical area of the three metro areas with 4,797 square miles; Cincinnati has 4,165 square miles, but spills into other states; Greater Cleveland has only 1,999 square miles.
E.g., Greater Columbus includes all adjacent counties and some second ring counties, 10 in all.
With Lake Erie to the north, Greater Cleveland has only five counties, including Lake County, the smallest in Ohio in area. It doesn't even include all adjacent counties to Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), as Summit County, with Akron as its county seat, is part of the Akron MSA. Northern Summit County includes several communities where persons commute to both Cleveland and other workplaces in Cleveland's Cuyahoga County, as well as to Akron. E.g., Hudson is only a 35-minute commute, 29 miles, from downtown Cleveland, and a much shorter commute to the I-271 corporate corridor in Cuyahoga County.
Downtown Akron itself is only a 43-minute, 40-mile commute to downtown Cleveland. New Lexington in the Columbus MSA is a one hour commute, 55 miles from downtown Columbus.
If just the adjacent Summit County was part of Greater Cleveland, Greater Cleveland would still have a population half a million greater than the Columbus MSA. The Cleveland MSA's square miles would increase by 419 to 2,418, still almost half the physical area of the Columbus MSA.
Marion County's Cambridge, OH, is in the Columbus MSA.
Comparing MSAs in Ohio is meaningless as it's comparing apples and oranges.
Columbus has by far the greatest geographical area of the three metro areas with 4,797 square miles; Cincinnati has 4,165 square miles, but spills into other states; Greater Cleveland has only 1,999 square miles.
E.g., Greater Columbus includes all adjacent counties and some second ring counties, 10 in all.
With Lake Erie to the north, Greater Cleveland has only five counties, including Lake County, the smallest in Ohio in area. It doesn't even include all adjacent counties to Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), as Summit County, with Akron as its county seat, is part of the Akron MSA. Northern Summit County includes several communities where persons commute to both Cleveland and other workplaces in Cleveland's Cuyahoga County, as well as to Akron. E.g., Hudson is only a 35-minute commute, 29 miles, from downtown Cleveland, and a much shorter commute to the I-271 corporate corridor in Cuyahoga County.
Downtown Akron itself is only a 43-minute, 40-mile commute to downtown Cleveland. New Lexington in the Columbus MSA is a one hour commute, 55 miles from downtown Columbus.
If just the adjacent Summit County was part of Greater Cleveland, Greater Cleveland would still have a population half a million greater than the Columbus MSA. The Cleveland MSA's square miles would increase by 419 to 2,418, still almost half the physical area of the Columbus MSA.
Marion County's Cambridge, OH, is in the Columbus MSA.
Comparing MSAs in Ohio is meaningless as it's comparing apples and oranges.
Cool. Thanks for the wiki page of information and adding no value to the conversation.
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