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Guys there seems to be rabid cheerleaders and gloom puffers but the truth is most Cola peeps are in the middleground . Obvi we'd like the development to succeed but we are also healthily skeptical and fearful of cost over runs fraud and corruption that tend to accompany pie in the sky developments that promise a panacea.
I don't think it will be gloomy in Columbia if this thing doesn't' come to pass. lol It will just be some stores and minorl eague baseball stadium. Not really going to improve anybody's life. You are basically repeating what I said while describing what I said as gloom puffing.
I can care less if stores locate anywhere, and I don't see why one developer should be preffered over another. Did the Irmo stores get tax subsidies to build in Irmo? No, so why should this developer simply because he wants to do it downtown? if this was a good investment with no risk, he wouldn't be asking for a baseball stadium funded by taxpayers. Anything development that needs a minor league team to be a success is a huge risk.
USC and a minor league team couldn't easily share a stadium. If you haven't been on the old State Hospital Grounds to look around, it is an immensely beautiful setting within walking distance of existing established neighborhoods and Min Street. I happen to think this will be an extremely successful mixed-use development. It may not be an overnight success, but within a few years, I think it will be spectacular. I live in the City of Columbia and I have no problem with the city's commitment of resources for the stadium or the infrastructure. It takes money to make money and Columbia Common is property moving from non-taxable, state owned land to taxable property. It will be a boon for the city.
yeah they can. or they can fund their own stadium. They arenn't paying for other people's pet projects so why should we pay for theirs?
If a Costco were to set up there, or a siminlar store that Columbia doesn't have, it would bring in more people than a tax funded expensive baseball stadium and some smaller stores few people care about. But you won't be excited about a Costco I suspect.
I think the people in the North Main area deserve their own Walmart but god knows a walmart would be opposed by the urbanites in Cola. lol
This development will probably be a boondoggle. A hotel might do ok there but that is about it.
There is already a decent baseball stadium in town that sits empty most of the time. Makes no sense to build another. Most minor league teams don't last in a city for long anyway.
Imagine Chattanooga deciding to locate their baseball stadium AWAY from their river. That is what Columbia is doing.
It makes more sense to locate it near the vista which has places to eat rather than an unattractive area with nothing.
Oh boy. Where to start with this one. Well for starters, Columbia is slated to get either a low-A South Atlantic League team or an advanced-A Carolina League team (depending on whether Savannah builds a new park for the Sand Gnats). Let's look at each team in those leagues and see how long they've been in their respective cities:
Carolina League Carolina Mudcats - 2012*
Frederick Keys - 1989
Lynchburg Hillcats - 1966
Myrtle Beach Pelicans - 1998
Potomac Nationals - 1984
Salem Red Sox - 1968
Wilmington Blue Rocks - 1993
Winston-Salem Dash - 1945
Average time in market - 32 years
* - the Advanced-A Carolina Mudcats are the former Kinston Indians. The AA Mudcats were sold and moved to Pensacola, FL, however, they were immediately replaced by the purchase and relocation of the Indians. The AA Mudcats had been in Zebulon, NC since 1991
South Atlantic League Asheville Tourists - 1976
Augusta Greenjackets - 1988
Charleston RiverDogs - 1980
Delmarva Shorebirds - 1996
Greensboro Grasshoppers - 1979
Greenville Drive - 2005
Hagerstown Suns - 1993
Hickory Crawdads - 1993
Kannapolis Intimidators - 1995
Lakewood Blue Claws - 2001
Lexington Legends - 2001
Rome Braves - 2003
Savannah Sand Gnats - 1984
West Virginia Power - 1987
Average time in market - 22.5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale7
lol so we need to pay $41 million for another baseball stadium a mile away because the other one has a college logo and colors on it as thought that factor would keep people away from games. The team could just have garnet colors too. I kind of see the SC baseball team as the minor league team in town already...not sure why we need another one. The SC baseball team will probably be better than the minor league one most years. lol
I don't think it is a no-brainer that this thing will succeed, and locating it away from The Vista make is a higher probablity that it won't succeed. I personally think most retailers will see that location as a risky investment. You will likely see it end up as a empty baseball stadium like the one in Huntsville that did not locate near the restaurants downtown, and 1 hotel.
If it is successful then you will see it cannibalize the other 3 areas. Go ahead and kiss Main Street growth goodbye because this area will have better parking and better visiblity to suburban residents, and visitors.
For one here, the presence of a pro team in a stadium built for an amateur team could cause certain bond issues to become due - if you recall, that was USC's stated reason for not allowing the Inferno to move over to the Colonial Center, as the bonds would suddenly become taxable by the presence of a pro team. As for the bolded portion above, what's your definition of "better?" A better record? Well heck, if that's the case, I might as well go see my little cousin's softball team. They're undefeated on the season. If you mean quality of play and quality of players, however, even the low minors rank above NCAA. Look at the level of ball most NCAAers play in their first professional seasons - at best they go into low-A or advanced-A. The bulk of them go into rookie or short-season A. That's even the case for the guys who play for the Gamecocks.
Oh boy. Where to start with this one. Well for starters, Columbia is slated to get either a low-A South Atlantic League team or an advanced-A Carolina League team (depending on whether Savannah builds a new park for the Sand Gnats). Let's look at each team in those leagues and see how long they've been in their respective cities:
Carolina League Carolina Mudcats - 2012*
Frederick Keys - 1989
Lynchburg Hillcats - 1966
Myrtle Beach Pelicans - 1998
Potomac Nationals - 1984
Salem Red Sox - 1968
Wilmington Blue Rocks - 1993
Winston-Salem Dash - 1945
Average time in market - 32 years
* - the Advanced-A Carolina Mudcats are the former Kinston Indians. The AA Mudcats were sold and moved to Pensacola, FL, however, they were immediately replaced by the purchase and relocation of the Indians. The AA Mudcats had been in Zebulon, NC since 1991
South Atlantic League Asheville Tourists - 1976
Augusta Greenjackets - 1988
Charleston RiverDogs - 1980
Delmarva Shorebirds - 1996
Greensboro Grasshoppers - 1979
Greenville Drive - 2005
Hagerstown Suns - 1993
Hickory Crawdads - 1993
Kannapolis Intimidators - 1995
Lakewood Blue Claws - 2001
Lexington Legends - 2001
Rome Braves - 2003
Savannah Sand Gnats - 1984
West Virginia Power - 1987
Average time in market - 22.5 years
For one here, the presence of a pro team in a stadium built for an amateur team could cause certain bond issues to become due - if you recall, that was USC's stated reason for not allowing the Inferno to move over to the Colonial Center, as the bonds would suddenly become taxable by the presence of a pro team. As for the bolded portion above, what's your definition of "better?" A better record? Well heck, if that's the case, I might as well go see my little cousin's softball team. They're undefeated on the season. If you mean quality of play and quality of players, however, even the low minors rank above NCAA. Look at the level of ball most NCAAers play in their first professional seasons - at best they go into low-A or advanced-A. The bulk of them go into rookie or short-season A. That's even the case for the guys who play for the Gamecocks.
I'm all for the baseball fans in town funding this 41 million dollar stadium. You want non-baseball fans to fund it for you though. That is the problem. Obviously that money could be going to things like roads which you guys always complain about.
I don't think there much difference b/t college ball and minor league ball. Colleges usually have more enthusiaitic and attached fans than minor league teams.
I prefer a tennis stadium that hosted professional tennis tournaments at this site. I bet lot of people supporting this baseball thing would oppose that. lol
How about turning this site into a paintball war amusement park? I can't see the urbanites going for that. lol
I'm all for the baseball fans in town funding this 41 million dollar stadium. You want non-baseball fans to fund it for you though. That is the problem. Obviously that money could be going to things like roads which you guys always complain about.
I don't think there much difference b/t college ball and minor league ball. Colleges usually have more enthusiaitic and attached fans than minor league teams.
I prefer a tennis stadium that hosted professional tennis tournaments at this site. I bet lot of people supporting this baseball thing would oppose that. lol
How about turning this site into a paintball war amusement park? I can't see the urbanites going for that. lol
You couldn't be much wronger here. Play at different levels of the minors can be drastically different, let alone between amateur (NCAA) and pro (MiLB)
You couldn't be much wronger here. Play at different levels of the minors can be drastically different, let alone between amateur (NCAA) and pro (MiLB)
If you say so. That isn't my main point though and I bet most major colleges in the south have bigger attendance than minor league teams.
Regardless, it doesn't refute my main point about baseball fans funding this boondoogle. Some people always say we don't tax enough in SC but yet we have 41 mil set aside for minor league baseball stadium? lol Obviously there isn't lack of tax revenue if we can spend this kind of money on a stadium. That is an amazing amount of money for a baseball stadium. Divide that amount by the number of people at minor league baseball games. People who goe to those games are probalby not even 1 percent of the metro's population but we are going to spend 41 mil to give them a stadium.
Democracy doesn't stop when you want it to. Nothing is ever settled and anything can continue to questioned and opposed.
But there is no reason to keep going if you are a conservative republican person. It's already been approved and it's going to happen in this place. Dirt will be moving at the end of June and some site work has already been done.
And I bet you don't even live in city limits to really be worrying about paying for it.
Ok, if this site is so awesome, they wouldn't need a stadium. Private investors would develop it without subsidies from taxpayers. If the site can't exist without a baseball team, it is a bad investment.
It is easy to be bold and rosed color glasses optimistic when you are taking risk with other people's money that could be going to fund infrastucture, cancer research, help poor people, etc. 41 million for a frickin minor league b aseball stadium is a silly waste of money, and most people in Columbia don't care about baseball. The stadium will probably average like 3000 people at best.
Greenville's team only done ok b/c it was located near Main Street which was already a thing.
Apparently you didn't see articles saying Greenville's city council had virtually no public backing when they voted to build Fluor Field. And you haven't seen how Greenville city leaders recently attributed the West End's development from a boarded up slum to what it is now to Fluor Field's having been built. The same story played out in Durham, NC. In the end you'll look back on what you've had to say about Columbia Common and disown your own words. Are you the engineer?
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