Colorado State Fair in Pueblo (Denver, Durango: fit in, sale, dorms)

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Ryker49

Far corner of the state? You need to look at a map. Pueblo is over 200 road miles (170 straight-line miles) from the southeast corner of the state. Actually, Pueblo is much closer to the geographic center of the state than the southeast corner.

I see your point. But suppose you live elsewhere in the state. How far do you have to travel to go to the State fair?

Grand Junction -- 574 mile RT
Durango -- 542 mile RT
Glenwood Springs -- 466 mile RT
Fort Collins -- 356 mile RT
Denver -- 226 mile RT

And by the way, Pueblo may be 200 road miles from the southeast corner of the state, but it's closer to the New Mexico and Kansas borders than it is to most population centers in the state...and 319 road miles (one way) from the far corner of the state. And, BTW...just how many people live in Baca County? About 4,500.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by davidv

IF the fair is to break even, then it needs to move closer to the population center of the state. That is where the customers are. When the fair was created 100 years ago, the state was much more agricultural and rural, and the populations of Denver and Pueblo were much closer in number. In 1910, Denver's population was about 5x the size of Pueblo's. In 2010, the Denver Metro area's population is 15x the population of Pueblo's MSA.

The fair is located in Pueblo county and next to El Paso county that have a combined population of over 750,000 people. As I have posted the fair makes a lot of money but the fair grounds loses $379,000 because it is underutilized the 355 days the fair is not in use. That is the goverment for you as they have no incentive to make any changes. Even now instead of working to find a solution to solve the problem they are just looking out for their own self interest which would leave the state with more problems and debt not less.

Originally Posted by davidv

Spending any money to upgrade state fair buildings to host conventions and the like would not be money well spent. No matter how much anyone wants Pueblo to be an alternative destination to Denver, people will not travel to Pueblo for conventions. Pueblo does not have suitable (and cheap) transportation to host national conventions, and in this state, any convention located too far away from the Denver metro area does not draw well, as the Denver metro residents are reluctant to attend.

Pueblo already is a alternative destination to Denver. Not for large national conventions or international conventions but for regional conventions who have tighter budgets and do not need the large facilities Denver has to offer. That is why the convention center in downtown is doing so well and why Pueblo is considered a top contender for the state grant that with the PBR arena would make the total complex about 250,000 square feet. If the state was to work with the convention center it would only make Pueblo more appealing for the regional conventions and even if they were only to get a few a year it would be more then enough to off set the loss the fair grounds has during the off season.

Originally Posted by davidv

The real problem is that state fairs are declining along with the rural population of the country. As farmers become more efficient, fewer are needed to produce the same amount of food. The US (and Colorado) has far fewer farmers in number than it had 100 years ago. To survive, the fairs are going to either have to scale back, or try to appeal to the "city folk."

That is a problem is some states like Michigan where attendance was going down so they closed the fair and it was in Detroit, the large metro area, but not in states like Colorado. I mean if this was really the case in Colorado then Denver would not be trying to get the fair but its the opposite as the attendance at the fair is up and continues to increase every year.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I think you make a very good point. State fairs thrived at a time that was very different than our present time. I began going to the New York State Fair in Syracuse over 50 years ago as a kid. It was a BIG deal. A decade ago I went to the Virginia State Fair. Nice, but...well, I guess you could say a MEDIUM deal. Summer before last I went to the Colorado State Fair...a nice diversion, but...well, it only held my attention for about 3 hours. Part of that is me changing, but part of it is a change in what interests the general public. The Colorado State Fair seems about comparable as the county fair was where I grew up. I also attended the El Paso County Fair...stayed there for less than 30 minutes...it seemed comparable to what we used to call Firemen's Carnivals in the old days.

That is you changing as attendance at the fair is up.

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Bottom line for me is this. I don't think that tax payer monies should support an entertainment venue. We don't support amusement parks in Denver or Glenwood Springs. We don't support movie theaters. Since Joseppie likes to talk about the history of having the fair in Pueblo, I'd like to see the historical approach be returned...that the state sell the fairgrounds to Pueblo (if Pueblo really wants the fair), or better yet that a non-profit, nongovernmental fair association take over the fair. Let it sink or swim. Who goes to the fair? My guess is that it's mostly people in the southeast part of the state. Perhaps regional fairs would be more appropriate. But again, it shouldn't be a state function.

The money does not go to the entertainment portion of the fair but if anything it goes to the mandated programs like the 4-H and FFA that help the youth. However as I have stated the fair itself makes money its just the off season and that has always been a issue yet the state does not try to solve it as they have no incentive to.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I see your point. But suppose you live elsewhere in the state. How far do you have to travel to go to the State fair?

Grand Junction -- 574 mile RT
Durango -- 542 mile RT
Glenwood Springs -- 466 mile RT
Fort Collins -- 356 mile RT
Denver -- 226 mile RT

And by the way, Pueblo may be 200 road miles from the southeast corner of the state, but it's closer to the New Mexico and Kansas borders than it is to most population centers in the state...and 319 road miles (one way) from the far corner of the state. And, BTW...just how many people live in Baca County? About 4,500.

Attendance is not a issue as the fair gets over 500,000 visitors a year. If attendance was a issue and it was dropping you might have a case but its not and continues to increase.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Attendance is not a issue as the fair gets over 500,000 visitors a year. If attendance was a issue and it was dropping you might have a case but its not and continues to increase.

Actually, last year attendance dipped slightly.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Actually, last year attendance dipped slightly.

My bad. I forgot that last year the numbers stayed flat.

Here is the data:

2010: 517,140
2011: 515,995

It was down 1,145 which is essentially flat and after increasing attendance in the past few years it is not a surprise especially given the economy we were in at the time and they raised the ticket price. My point still stands that attendance is not the issue because if it was attendance would not have climbed above 500,000 people.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

My bad. I forgot that last year the numbers stayed flat.

Here is the data:

2010: 517,140
2011: 515,995

It was down 1,145 which is essentially flat and after increasing attendance in the past few years it is not a surprise especially given the economy we were in at the time and they raised the ticket price. My point still stands that attendance is not the issue because if it was attendance would not have climbed above 500,000 people.

To decide if attendance is an issue for a state-wide fair, I'd think you'd need data to determine where the people are coming from who attend.

And a statewide fair ought to be increasing every year since the population of the state is increasing every year.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

To decide if attendance is an issue for a state-wide fair, I'd think you'd need data to determine where the people are coming from who attend.

The fair has all that information.

Here is a link:

The Colorado State Fair - Demographics

As you might expect most of the people who attend the fair come from Pueblo and Colorado Springs. However 10% (about 50,000 people) do come from the northern front range and that includes Denver. Since both Pueblo and Colorado Springs are expected to grow over the next 30 years there is no reason to think the fair won't grow as well.

Originally Posted by phetaroi

And a statewide fair ought to be increasing every year since the population of the state is increasing every year.

The overall trend should be up but there will always be odd years where due to weather or the economy the attendance is more flat. That is what is going on with the fair as the overall trend is up.

[davidv]

Before the fair is moved out of Pueblo, maybe it might be better to change the dates of the fair. By August 24, most of the state's school districts are already in session, and traveling to Pueblo during the week becomes an impossibility for families.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by davidv

Before the fair is moved out of Pueblo, maybe it might be better to change the dates of the fair. By August 24, most of the state's school districts are already in session, and traveling to Pueblo during the week becomes an impossibility for families.

That is something worth looking into. Back when the fair was set school did not start till after labor day well things have changed. One of the problems with moving the date of the state fair is they have to hold the fair after all the county fairs but I don't see why they can't move it up a few weeks at least.